The Better Sex Podcast ~ Sexual Responsibility with Umoh Luna

In this episode I sit down with astrologer, witch, and shamanistic strategist Umoh Luna. In this VERY unfiltered conversation, we explore the dynamics of sexual energy, the drama triangle, bodily autonomy and how all of this ties into sexual responsibility.  We dive into all the things – shame, judgment, empowerment, victimhood and power.  Juicy, right?!  Umoh shares the importance of playful curiosity while  exploring your own body. This curiosity is not just for you to learn yourself, but brings an element of even more depth when you bring it to the bedroom with your partner. 

Resources 

Umoh

Astrology Website https://www.yourdollarsign.com/site/about

FB https://www.facebook.com/UmohLuna 

Deborah

Got questions about sex and relationship? DeborahTantraKat@gmail.com

Better Sex Membership https://www.deborahkat.com/turnedon

FB https://www.facebook.com/deborah.tantrakat

In our commitment accessibility, help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. The transcription is far from perfect, and in some cases quite amusing. As we grow edited transcripts are on the list in the meantime please enjoy.

00:00SPEAKER_00 Okay. And so I'm just gonna go ahead, just so you know, I'm gonna go ahead, I'm gonna say my better, better sex thing. I'm gonna introduce you, I'll invite you to tell your story and we will go from there. Okay. Is there anything else I need to know before we dive in? Like something you really want to make sure we talk about or something you really don't want us to talk about? I do want to talk about the drama triangle. Okay. And another piece I do want to talk about is like your bodily autonomy and how that also ties into your health and your medical stuff too. Okay, great. We will do that then. There's nothing I don't want to talk about that I can think of. Cool. Great. Welcome to the Better Sex podcast. My name is Deborah Kat and I am your shameless host. This is the Better Sex podcast where we have unfiltered conversations about sex and relationships. This show is about the many different ways that we have sex, that we have relationships, and this is for people who want to have better sex on their terms. So I truly believe that a sexy world creates a happier world and a safer world. If you want to do your part in creating a sexy, safe world, please hit subscribe and let us know what you think wherever you get or listen to your podcasts. So today my guest is Eun Hwa. She is a highly regarded astrologer, witch, shamanistic strategist. Her experience is blending the sacred and the strategic. Shadow work, ritual, tapping into earth cycles, sex magic, working with all kinds of sexual energy are some of her favorite tools to work with. She has a lifetime of healing journeys and deep spiritual work, which has given her a unique insight into the path of pain and how to transform it. That is the official bio, and I just want you to know what I know about her, which is we have been dancing back and forth in different cycles and journeys along the way for about the last 10 years, and it has been a pleasure to be in her company. She is creative and brings honesty and vulnerability and transparency wherever she goes, and I'm just so freaking excited to have you here today to dive into this world of sensual sexual responsibility and pleasure, and on that note, I'm going to let you tell a little bit of your story. How did you get here?

03:20SPEAKER_02 Okay, sure. Awesome. Well, thank you for having me. I'm super excited that we get to play together today. So how did I get here? So basically, I was raised in a pretty repressed sexual household. My dad's African, so it's very patriarchal, very like codified strict, you know, rules around sex and sexual behavior and expression and all that sort of thing. I was also raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for nine years. That's not some of the happiest moments of my childhood. And I also experienced sexual abuse at a very young age. So I had a lot of negative programming around sex, a lot of negative programming, a lot of negative experiences. And when I was about seven years old, I somehow had this insight that I didn't want to carry that. I didn't want to carry it and that I was going to need to learn how to forgive. And at seven years old, I was thinking about forgiving my abusers for my own benefit. I don't know how I was even there to think of that, you know, but that was really when I started my healing journey. And I personally don't regret anything that happened. I'm so, so grateful. I know it sounds weird for all the crazy, terrible experiences that I had because they made me who I am. And I love who I am. I really fucking love who I am. And I have so much knowledge and wisdom and experience that comes from that place of pain, you know. And so sometimes I forget that and I look at other people and I'm like, what the

05:29SPEAKER_00 fuck is wrong with them? Why are they, what, I'm sorry. Am I allowed to cuss? You can cuss. You can say whatever you want to say. And I just want to say, first of all, that like, I love the way that you are willing to step into loving yourself and just broadcast that out because it is really05:50SPEAKER_02 important to see that as a model. Oh, thank you. I mean, it's a process, you know, I don't love everything every day, but in general, overall, I appreciate who I am, you know. So, okay, I lost my train of thought. I was like, wait, am I allowed to say something? Well, you were saying, you were saying that, you know, sometimes looking out at others. Yeah. So sometimes I look at other people and I'm kind of judgmental in their area of sex and I'm like, what's wrong with them? Like, why can't they see X, Y, and Z? Like, it seems so apparent to me. And then I have to take a step back and say, well, actually, they haven't been consciously and intentionally working with sexual energy and the idea of it and how it affects them since they were seven years old. So relax. Take your judgmental goggles off and just be aware that people have different experiences, you know. So that's what I mean is that that reminds me to be grateful that I know the things that I know, that I understand the threads that I'm able to have, the sexual experiences, the peak sexual experiences that I'm able to have, you know, all of that kind of stuff.

07:09SPEAKER_00 Yeah, I really appreciate the idea that it's like, we can change that moment of judgment to compassion. And I think that's one of the things that's really missing in the world right now is that we are so busy judging each other and, you know, wondering why, you know, why do you think that way or, you know, and forgetting that not everybody has the same experience. And so I really just want to highlight that idea that people are just doing the best they can07:48SPEAKER_02 and when they know better, they can do better. Yes. And the other thing is that, like, you know, I have whatever gifts that I have, but they have understandings and knowings and things that I don't have. They have gifts that they can look at me and be like, what the hell's wrong with her?08:04SPEAKER_00 Why should I do this? Absolutely. So you were starting to talk a little bit about how you learned more about sexual energy and how to hold it, how to play with it, how to be with it.

08:26SPEAKER_02 Yeah, I mean, I think it was just always on my mind because I had those experiences as a young child. I didn't have the luxury of ignoring my sexual energy. So from that young age, I was thinking about, am I broadcasting sexual energy? And I was thinking about this in terms of how to protect myself as a child from predators, you know? So I was thinking about, this was mostly more when I became a teenager, but I was thinking about how what I'm signaling or not signaling and all that kind of stuff. And then I also, because I had those experiences, I knew that there was a power to sex and that there was a recurrency to it, right? And I knew that was something that people wanted from me, even if they weren't supposed to, right? Certain people, not all people, but I knew that I was going to have to have a power to do that. So I was thinking about all these things and playing with them. And I remember when I was a teenager, I had what I called my grandpa's styles, and I would literally wear my grandpa's clothes. I would just be like, I would wear very baggy, masculine clothes because I was like, I don't want people looking at me in a sexual way. Or I would dress like, quote unquote, slutty. And I would wear like big bag, black boots, tiny skirt, you know, boobs out. And then I was like, you will look at me, you know? And that was just me kind of playing with those extremes. And that's when I started to just, just that was like my simple way of playing with that energy and seeing how the world reacted to me differently, or didn't react to me differently based on just what I was wearing, you know? And that sort of

10:34SPEAKER_00 gave me the beginning of a felt sense of just expressing and feeling my own sexual energy and then how it plays with the world at large. That was the beginning of it, you know? That's remarkable. I love what you were saying about not only the power of sexuality, but the currency of it. And when I hear that, I think, you know, of course, I think the currency as in dollars and cents, but I also think the currency as in the electrical current. And I'm just kind of curious if you wanted to, you know, clarify that or talk about that at all.

11:15SPEAKER_02 Yeah. Well, I meant the currency as in like money. But it definitely, there is an electrical currency there for sure. And that's maybe the thing that people want to purchase, you know? That's the thing they want to trade, that electricity, that like, that feeling of aliveness, right? And some people have access to it and some people don't, you know? And so if you do have access to that, that is a currency you can use. Now, some people may say that's an abuse of your sexual energy and your sexual power. I don't think it is as long as you're doing it responsibly, you know? And what would responsibly look like? Well, as long as you're not doing it to like hurt anyone or like manipulate people in a like, you know, harmful way. We're always manipulating each other all the time. That's human nature. No human survives without manipulating other people, right? And then the whole idea of influence is just another word for manipulation, right? So I think if we try to say that no one is manipulating anyone at any time, we're just lying to ourselves or being delusional, you know? Like for myself, I don't go on job interviews because I don't, you know, work for other people, but like not like that, you know? But so if I knew I was getting interviewed by a woman, I would wear something different than if I was getting interviewed by a man. So if I'm getting interviewed by a man, I'm going to show a little more cleavage. I'm going to be a little, I'm going to dress a little sexier. And guess what? I'm more likely to get the job. And I'm okay with that for myself, you know? And if it's a woman, she's not going to like that. So I'm going to play it down and I'm going to cover up and I'm going to be more professional.

13:14SPEAKER_00 Mm hmm. And in those examples, would you, so I just had the thought like in one example with the cleavage, you might have more of a sexual charge and with less cleavage, you might have more of a heart charge or a connecting charge. And I just want to say really quickly, at least my understanding and yours may be different, but like the thing about sexual energy is it's not just like, you know, traditional sex. It's creativity. It is potency. It is, you know, attraction. And so at least in my mind, when we use the term sexual energy, we're, we're, we're, it's way bigger than what happens when we're, you know, rubbing body pieces, parts together. Absolutely. Yes. I'm

14:09SPEAKER_02 giving a pretty literal example and I'm talking about, I'm talking about in this specific example, sexual energy in a pretty literal way. But here's the thing, when you are a sexually liberated person, you have a sexual charge to you, whether you want to or not, you know what I mean? And that's going to affect how people treat you and interact with you. And sometimes other women don't like it and they're threatened by it. And that's a fact. And if I was to go around in the world pretending like that didn't happen, I would cause myself a lot of problems.

14:47SPEAKER_00 Yeah. Well, I think this is where the responsibility piece comes in that you've been talking about is, you know, kind of knowing your audience and knowing what you want to do, you know, audience and knowing what you want to accomplish or what you, how you want to connect in,

15:10SPEAKER_02 in that time and place. Would that be accurate? Totally. Absolutely. Exactly. Right. And, and like, everything, like everything that is, is an instrument of power can be used as a tool or a weapon. Right. And sex is sex, sexual energy is power. And, and I think that we, as women, sometimes either don't understand that or we shy away from it, or we're told that we're not allowed to be powerful, or especially not sexually powerful. There's like so much baggage and bullshit around it, that it's really hard for us sometimes to interact with it cleanly. And so you can't really interact with it cleanly until you acknowledge that you do have sexual power. And then you can move about the world with it responsibly. But if you don't even acknowledge that it's there, or you're trying to pretend that it's not there, or you're telling yourself you're not allowed to be that, then that's also going to be part of what's going to cause you problems and

16:17SPEAKER_00 get you into victim type of situations, you know? Yeah, this seems like a really good place. We were talking for a moment before, this seems like a really good place to introduce the triangle.

16:32SPEAKER_02 Yes, yes. So yeah, so one, the drama triangle is one name for it, right, which is the whole rescuer, perpetrator, victim, right? And so it's like we can put ourselves on one of these pieces of the wheel. And I personally have been in all roles, and I think all of us have, if we're going to be honest with ourselves, which usually we're not.

17:03SPEAKER_00 I'm sensing a theme here, which is being honest with ourselves. And I want to hop on that in a

17:11SPEAKER_02 minute, but let's go back to the triangle. Yeah, so basically the rescuer, there's these mirrorings between all of them, right? So the rescuer shows up and wants to save the day. And part of how they derive their power is by being needed and being the hero and looking at themselves as the good guy, right? But in doing that and being the hero, sometimes you're not allowing the quote unquote victim to be powerful and you're actually taking their power away from them, just like the perpetrator, right? Because you're taking responsibility for them, right? And then we have the perpetrator or the villain, right, who is taking, who is like the thief, who is the violator, right? All of these things, right? But there's also something sexy about them because they give us that feeling of being wanted and needed and desired because they want to take something from us, which makes us as the victim feel valuable because how can they want to take something unless we have something valuable that they want, right? So this weird tension of desire is between the perpetrator and the victim. Now, not always, this is just like one threat, you know, it's super complicated. There's lots of different layers to it, you know? But the the villain is not taking any responsibility, right? Like, so the hero or the rescuer is taking too much responsibility. The villain is everyone else's fault and if you get fucked over, too bad, that's on you. You know? Never their fault, right? And so, and then this is where the mirroring happens with the perpetrator and the victim. Sometimes it's like the victim, it's not their fault, it's somebody else's fault, it's that bad, it's that bad guy over there, it's his fault, he did it. I'm the helpless, innocent victim, right? So sometimes the victim is innocent and helpless and sometimes the victim is helpless but not innocent. And by innocent, I want to be clear, I'm not saying, I'm not talking about it's their fault. I'm saying that they're

19:47SPEAKER_00 repeating a pattern over and over again, right? So, go ahead. I was going to say this is a place, you know, where I often hear people talk about learned helplessness. Yes. And oftentimes, I just want to say that oftentimes these different roles are assigned to us from our family. Absolutely. This is a place where family, you know, these roles really play out and of course, you know, if this is what we're growing up with, this is, you know, how we interact with everyone in the world.

20:23SPEAKER_02 Totally. Like, you know, the whole idea of the narcissist and, you know, there's a lot of hate against the narcissist right now. But it's like a narcissist is created through extreme abuse, you know. I have this very narcissistic ex and the things that his mom did to him were just like so horrific and awful, the abuse that he experienced. It's like, no wonder he decided to go through the world saying, fuck everybody, I'm taking care of me and me only, you know, if that's the way your own mother treated you, you know what I mean? So, I think that's a really good point that you brought up, you know, is that, and this is also tying back to the compassion, right? And it's like, there's, it's not so simple. We want everything to be black and white and he's the good guy and he's the bad guy and there's the victim. But it's like, life doesn't work in black and white, unfortunately.

21:15SPEAKER_00 It would be a lot easier, but it doesn't. So we've got the triangle and we've got these different roles that we play. And as you mentioned earlier, we can play different roles with different people.

21:33SPEAKER_02 Well, part of it is, like you said, with the compassion, right? And that's for ourselves and the other person. And this is something you and I talked about in a different conversation that I think is important is that currently there's a big backlash against like victim mentality and like all of that right now, which isn't necessarily bad, but there is a time and a place for us to honor the fact that we are a victim. And so, I think that's a really good point. And so, I think that's a really good point. And so, I think that's a really good point. And that if we don't honor that, if we tell ourselves, oh, I got to get out of this victim mentality and I'm not, then we're kind of like, like doing a version of spiritual bypassing. And we will just keep repeating the pattern if we don't actually address it. And if we tell ourselves, get over it, stop being a victim, we're not actually allowing ourselves to process it and heal. So that's part of it is that we have to allow ourselves to feel the pain of being a victim. Now, that doesn't mean you have to stay in the victimhood. And that's actually what helps you get out of victimhood is to allow yourself to be affected by what's actually happened to you. It's already affecting you, but you're not bringing that into your conscious awareness. And you're trying to like subjugate it and repress it and box it up and all of that stuff, which is what creates the repetition of the pattern. So that's one piece of allowing yourself that space to be where you're at so you can actually heal. Another piece is not deriving. So that's how to get out of the victim. Part of how you get off the victim, how you get off the hero is you stop deriving your value from other people's opinions of you. You let go of that your value is based on how good you are, and instead that your value is intrinsic because of who you are, not because of the list of good deeds that makes you a valuable human being. And then the villain or the perpetrator, where they get stuck is that it's all about blaming instead of taking responsibility. So they can't say, they say, it's your fault, you did this and blah, blah, blah, because they can't look at themselves because they're in that blaming instead of taking responsibility. So if they aren't blaming everyone else, then they're blaming themselves. And their sense of self is already so fragile to like point a finger back and blame themselves, they're going to crumble. So they have to learn the idea that responsibility isn't about blame and that you can take responsibility without blaming yourself or anyone else. So that's how they can start to, and bringing also that self-compassion of like, how did I get here? Why am I being like this? And allowing themselves to kind of open their heart to themselves first, similar as the victim, right? So that they can heal and they can be honest about

24:44SPEAKER_00 what they've done so that they can choose to do something differently. I mean, it sounds like with each of the positions, like the first step one is, you know, as I like to say, don't argue with reality. Yes, I love that. It's like, what is the reality of the situation? Whether you're in the victim position, whether you're in the hero position, whether you're in the perpetrator position, it's like, what is actually going on here is like step one. And then I heard you say that like, you know, being able to take

25:23SPEAKER_02 responsibility and having compassion and I'd say vulnerability is kind of like step two. And then I lost step three. That's okay, me too. I don't know what step three, I know what I said kind of, but what step three would be like to pull it together concisely. I don't know what you would call it. But, but so yeah, so I think, and the other piece is, regardless of what where you've landed is to also look at where you've been the other pieces, right, where you've been played the other roles. And that can also help you take you out of the black and white bilateral thinking. That's always kind of a trap. That's always kind of a trap.

26:19SPEAKER_00 Right. So when you actually see the places where you play the other roles, you have more, you have a bigger vision and you actually, again, have more compassion, which allows for a bigger dialogue, I would imagine.

26:38SPEAKER_02 Exactly, exactly. And it's like, yeah, like you said, I like the way you said the bigger vision, because what happens when we're stuck in this triangle is we have this very narrow field of vision and this very one dimensional way of interacting with ourselves and others. And that is always a trap. You know, whenever we expand our perception and our vision, then we can expand our understanding and we can expand our experience and we can expand our growth and our potential and all these things, you know.

27:12SPEAKER_00 So I'd love to bring the conversation back to sexuality and sexual responsibility or, you know, sexual empowerment, because it sounds very much like without responsibility, you know, it sounds like that that quote, you know, with great power comes great responsibility. And as you were talking and telling your story and your, you know, when you were starting to actually have relationship with your own sexuality and realizing, oh, it's this power here. And if I use it in this way, this is going to be the outcome. You know, if I'm, if I dress sexy, this is going to be the outcome. Do I want that outcome? If I, you know, button up, this is going to be the outcome. Do I want that outcome? And I'm curious, you know, if you can talk a little bit about, about the how, how do we take sexual, how do we take responsibility for our sexuality?

28:21SPEAKER_02 Yeah, sure. There's like so many layers to it. So, you know, that's just a very basic one. Just, first of all, being aware that you have sexual energy, that you have sexual power, then, you know, starting to think about that, like stuff that I was talking about, starting to think about, well, what were you taught or not taught about that? Like kind of what was, what was your sexual legacy, right? Like what handed down to you that is influencing how you interact with your own sexual energy. And then just getting to know that idea that you, you actually own your own sexual energy. So much of like programming, especially in the church and religion, it's like you, your sex is for your husband. That's not even, you don't, it's not even for you, right? And that even though it seems like, oh, that's an extreme idea, it's modeled in society and it's modeled in the orgasm gap. And that it's just accepted that a man gets to come every time, but it's like, oh, if a woman gets to come, that's nice too. And the other part about that is if she comes, he made her come. Right. He gets the credit for it. And that's another great point that you brought up is that to idea too, right? Of like, well, what if it coming to sex from that orientation, you know, of, well, is he going to make me come? And that's part of why women are having unsatisfying sexual experiences is they're not taking responsibility for their own sexual energy and their own sexual experience and expression. Now, of course, yes, the guy has some responsibility also, you're, you know, otherwise you can just do this at home by yourself.

30:04SPEAKER_00 Or your partner of whatever gender.

30:07SPEAKER_02 Yeah, exactly. But, but in general, the orgasm gap between women, women, women is very, very small compared to the orgasm gap between women and men. So statistically, if you're a woman and you, and you want to have orgasms every time you have sex, have sex with a woman statistically.

30:26SPEAKER_00 Good to know. Note to self. So, but again, I just, I'm so curious. I mean, I really want to get under what does it mean to30:40SPEAKER_02 be responsible for your own orgasm? Okay. So, so first of all, it's like, what do I actually like? What turns me on? Like, and they seem like simple questions, but they're not because we have so much layers, so many layers of like sexual repression and what you're supposed to be turned on by and what you're allowed to be turned on by. And if you like this, then you're a slut. And if you, if you don't like this, you're a prude. It's so much noise around a woman's sexual energy and her sexual experience that it does take time and energy to get to what turns you on. So like, I remember having certain experiences that when I was a teenager, that very much turned me on, that I literally forgot all about for like 10 years because they weren't allowed. And if you would ask me, did I, what turned me on? I wouldn't have said any of those things. I literally didn't remember. Right? So it's like, it's so easy as women to have amnesia around our own turn-ons and our own desires. So that is just asking ourselves, what turns me on? What do I like? What do I desire? It can be like a deep, it can take some deep excavating to get to.

32:05SPEAKER_00 And I don't think people understand that. You know? Yeah, no, I, as you're saying that, I'm like, that is such a, I, when I work with clients and ask, well, what do you like? It's like the deer in the headlight look of like, um, I don't know. And when they do know, as you said, oftentimes it's like, they're not necessarily comfortable sharing. I can't tell you how many men I've worked with who get pleasure from, you know, anal, anal play. And yet when you ask them, they're like, well, you know, uh, and, and it takes a while. And, and, you know, cause that layer of shame, that layer of programming is so, so thick and deep. And, um, I really want people who are listening to just know that, uh, really, when you start tapping into your sexuality, it is a courageous act. You, uh, you know, having, taking sexual responsibility is a courageous act. It's like, because basically you're saying I am stepping out of what I've been told and I'm actually relying on my own body, my own, uh, experience to tell me what works for me. And I know this is something that you really work with a lot is the cycles of one's body. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about that.

33:44SPEAKER_02 Yeah, sure. Yeah. And that's another thing that affects when our, when and how we're turned on is like, uh, as a woman where you are in your cycle, if you're still cycling, if you're not cycling, that also is going to affect your sexuality and your sexual energy and may or may not affect what does and doesn't turn you on. Right. So there's all these things that work. So for myself, part of how I know I'm, um, ovulating is like, it's so fucking horny. So like when I'm ovulating, as far as like what it takes to get me there is way less than pretty much any other time in my cycle. Right. Because like there's, there's the hormonal cocktail to get me there is like super available. And so if you don't like understand that kind of stuff, you might have that experience and then like not understand why you can't always replicate it. Right. Um, like, and that's another way I can tell when I'm ovulating is cause my orgasm harder, longer, stronger. Right. So, you know, not, I'm not saying this only time, but it happens easier. Right. So all these things are playing into, um, you know, so much. And then, and then like, you know, if you have baby, you know, you're, some people, your, your, your sexual desire plummets. Right. But, and then, then some people, it doesn't, and then you, you have the baby, your hormones are all fucking a mess. And then, you know, like, so like I had experience of like, I couldn't get wet at all, which is very common, but I was still on, but my body was not exhibiting

35:31SPEAKER_00 that, um, you know, physical manifestation of that. Right. Right. And that's often something that our partners look for. It's like, Oh, you're not turned on because you're not wet or you're not, you know, your nipples aren't hard or whatever. And it's, it's just, I can't remember. I guess it's sexual or what is it? Arousal incongruity or some such thing. Anyway, I'm digressing. Uh, coming back to the cycles, you were saying that like for you, your, this was post postpartum. So after you had the baby, you were still really turned on,

36:09SPEAKER_02 but your body wasn't doing what it used to do. Exactly. And then I was breastfeeding and then like, okay, my, like, my nipples are like so sensitive. And like before I would like, you know, that my breasts and my nipples would be played with. But after that, I was like, don't touch me. They're just like so sensitive. You know? Um, and so, and then like when you, when I was pregnant, now this is another thing that people don't necessarily talk about and that women can have a lot of shame around. And I kind of did is that like, I sometimes when you're horny, when you're pregnant, you get like super horny. And then some people don't want to have sex at all. I was so horny when I was pregnant. And it was just like, ah, it was like, I wasn't expecting that, you know, I did. I mean, I kind of had heard that before, but I wasn't expecting it to be like this thing that it was just like, and then all these guys were like hitting on me all the time when I was pregnant. I was like, so confused because I thought that being pregnant was considered ugly and not sexy. And like men were literally hitting on me all the time. And I was like, you know, I'm pregnant, right? And they'd be like, well, are you still with the dad?

37:24SPEAKER_00 I, you know, hearing you say that, I just imagine that you were probably like, a, you know, this whole fertility thing was being broadcast out as was the, you know, the pheromones of fertility. It's funny that you say that though, because I know, at least some of the clients that I've been working with lately, it's like, there's something about their partner being pregnant, where the men are actually like, they're in this weird position of just like you said, you know, you were like, I'm horny, but I'm not supposed to, because I'm pregnant, you know, and the partners are doing the same thing where they're like, like, you're the mother of my children. And yet, whatever's coming off of your skin is just potent and, you know, really pulling me in. So, yeah, it can be really confusing. This whole cycling business can be really confusing because basically what we're generally told is that, yes, you can have sex when you're menstruating,

38:37SPEAKER_02 but it's messy. Right. Yeah. And that's another thing. Like sometimes, I mean, I know myself very well because I track my shit and I track my cycles and I'm very interested in this is part of me being in my sexual power and responsible. I'm interested in my own experience. I'm interested in my own sexuality. So I track and I document. And so I know like, okay, in the beginning of my period, I don't want to have sex. I'm not horny and I don't want anyone to touch me. In the middle, I'm turned on by it and I like it. In the middle and the end, I like it. You know, whether it's messy or not, I'm going to have an enjoyable experience. You know, if we can put that aside of whatever the story is about what we're allowed to do or not do. Right. You know, but it's that same thing of like, oh, well, you're not supposed to. And there's like spiritual stuff around it, like, oh, if you shouldn't have sex when you're in your period because it's bad. It's like, whatever, you know, it's like you get to choose your beliefs. Right. Just because this group, just because I'm a spiritual person and some spiritual people say that having sex is bad when you're in your period because you're supposed to be eliminating and you shouldn't put anything in. They're allowed to have their opinion and I'm allowed to have my experience. And I don't need to, I know, I don't need to take that on whether it's religious or spiritual, you know.

39:58SPEAKER_00 Mm hmm. I love that. So basically part of sexual power and sexual responsibility is also choosing where your beliefs are and upgrading them to what is going back to that piece about like, what is reality? So reality being like, oh, my body is super turned on at this point in my cycle. And if my partner and I are available and, you know, open to being sexual during this part of

40:34SPEAKER_02 my cycle, then let's do it. Exactly. So like, for example, I had a partner that I thought he didn't want to have sex when I was on my period and he thought that I didn't want to have sex when I was on my period. And we both really wanted to, but it was just because we both kind of assumed that the other person didn't want to because that's the societal idea of like what people, and then we, you know, kind of decided to somehow let that be. That's so good. Fair that that was even what was happening, you know.

41:08SPEAKER_00 Beautiful. So I'm curious, like, if somebody's listening to us and they're really curious about how they can have more of this turn on of this juice of this, you know, this powerful

41:24SPEAKER_02 sexual energy that we've been talking about, like, what's one small, what's one thing that they could do to bring more of that into their own life? Well, I mean, the first, the thing that comes to my mind is to play with yourself. And by that, I mean, like, yes, masturbate and whatever, but it's like really like explore and play with your own body, your own energy, your own fantasies, like, just take it from that place of play and exploration instead of like a job or work to like, I need to master my sexuality, you know, or like, or like getting like too precious and spiritual with it or anything, either like, sometimes that's part of my problem with tantrum and stuff like that. It's like, it makes it a little too precious, you know, like, it doesn't give you the arrange for the full like, dirty, earthly humanness that is actually very fucking magical and powerful and beautiful, you know. So it doesn't have to be always all sacred this and that, you know.

42:39SPEAKER_00 I just want to say for the tantricas out there, or for those that are into tantra, you know, the earth and the primal and the dirty and the nasty, that's all part of it. So there's the range. Yes, I hear what you're saying. A lot of the neo tantra that we have going on in, you know, here in the States is very, you know, you got to have your, everybody's divine, everybody's a goddess or a god or, you know, and there's lots of chimes and there's lots of billowy things and

43:16SPEAKER_02 there's not a lot of mud. Yeah, and so that's what I'm saying. And I'll, for all disclosure, I'm not a tantric. I don't know all everything about tantric this and that. I just know, you know, some of what I see is what you're talking about, that it doesn't resonate with me. And although I am very into like, yes, sex can be sacred in a spiritual experience, but sex can be a sacred spiritual experience when one person is tying another person up and calling them their little slut. It can still be a sacred experience, you know, and there can be no chimes or incense

43:48SPEAKER_00 or mantras and it could still be that, you know. I love that. Yeah, I just, you know, to be trans sex is a beautiful thing across the board. And, you know, trans when, when I think about transcendence, you know, which is a lot of what people talk about in the sacred sexual world, transcendence comes in all sorts of different shapes and sizes and, you know, has different, different accoutrement, you know, and coming back to what you were saying about sexual responsibility. It's like when we start to transcend the stories, our histories, all of the shame, like that, that's, that's transcendence. When we step out of those things and we actually take on what do I want? What do I think? How, how am I going to use this crazy energy? Like that's

44:48SPEAKER_02 what I hear you saying. And, you know, when I hear you say that it's like, oh, that's, that's transcendence to me. Yes, I love that. And like for me personally, what you said is so poignant about the shame piece, you know, and that, that a lot of times what is preventing us from transcendence and transcendent experiences, sexual or otherwise, but specifically sexual is this shame that we have around it. And so I think sometimes people go more into the like, let's do all the candles and the eye gazing and the incense because then it's like, oh, you have to almost buy yourself permission to just like want that, that earthly delicious pleasure, that sex. And I'm like, you know, if that's what your natural, that's what your organic turn on is. And that's like your thing. Great. Go for it. But if it's not like that's okay too. And you can have both. You can have a range. Like I like that stuff sometimes, but not all the time, you know, sometimes I just want to fuck and I can have a transcendent experience getting fucked. And I think that's like an important piece to bring in, you know, and like as a spiritual person or whatever you want to call it, you know what I mean? And that's like what you're saying, like in the mud and just like, like, like, let, let yourself have permission to be human and primal and, and whatever, whatever that looks like for you, you know what I mean? Everybody has different experience, different range, you know, but give yourself permission to have the full range. Don't tell yourself it can only come in this slice, you know?

46:26SPEAKER_00 So good. God, I, this feels like the beginning of a conversation and yet we're almost out of time here today. So if people want to work with you and find you, where do we find you?

46:40SPEAKER_02 Yeah, well, probably best place to find me is on Facebook. That's where I'm at most of the time. I pretty much accept all friend requests from women. And, you know, most guys, as long as, you know, whatever, as long as I get a good vibe. So I'm pretty open. I like to connect with people there. So that's probably the best place to reach me, connect with me. My name is spelled Umoh, U-M-O-H, Luna, L-U-N-A. There's only one of me, so you won't have any problems finding me.

47:22SPEAKER_00 Absolutely. You are the original. All right. So I just want to say thank you so much to my guest. This has been a fascinating and spicy conversation. And if you want to find her, please look her up on Facebook. And I'm going to invite you to spell your name and where they would find you on Facebook one more time.

47:47SPEAKER_02 Okay, it's Umoh, that's my first name, Luna, L-U-N-A, that's my last name. You can find me on Facebook. It's my personal page. That's where I like to play.

48:01SPEAKER_00 All right. And some of the there's some very spicy conversations going on over there. The information will be in the show notes. And I have a little bit of a hard time getting this right. And I think that's all the important stuff other than I'm your host, Deborah Catt. You've been listening to the Better Sex podcast where we have unfiltered conversations. If you have questions for me or my guests, please send an email to deboratantracatt.gmail.com. That'll be in the show notes. And please, please subscribe, like, leave a comment, help us rule the world with more sexuality because, as I said earlier, a sexy world is a safer world. Thank you again for listening and we will see you hear you next time. Take good care now.