Smart Men and Sacred Sexuality with Dr. Jessica Harvey

On this episode I sit down with Tantric Scientist Dr. Jessica Harvey to talk about sexuality as a sacred practice.  Hear her story of taking her MIT-trained Organic Chemist academic research skills and applying them to the exploration of consciousness and sacred relating.  We dive into the path of Tantric wisdom that teaches sexuality as a sacred path for awakening and liberation from suffering.  Dr. Harvey shares her perspectives on emotional intelligence, mens’ sexuality and how to empower men to vulnerably reclaim their desires in ways that also respect and honor women. Jessica shares more about her research into desire, communication and self-care for fostering deeper intimacy. 

Learn More About Jessica: 

The Thinking Man's Intimacy Summit: https://www.bliss-science.com/summit

for men and couples: https://www.bliss-science.com/ 

Follow Jessica on IG! https://www.instagram.com/bliss.science/

Got questions about sex and relationship?

DeborahTantraKat@gmail.com

Support the Podcast Become part of the Better Sex Membership 

https://www.deborahkat.com/turnedon 

Coaching with Debroah 

https://www.deborahkat.com/services-5

In our commitment accessibility, help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. The transcription is far from perfect, and in some cases quite amusing. As we grow edited transcripts are on the list in the meantime please enjoy.

Deborah [00:00:00]:

Thank you for okay. All right? So welcome to the better sex podcast. My name is Deborah Kat, and I am your shameless host. This is the Better Sex Podcast, where we have unfiltered conversation s about sex and relationship. This show is about the many different ways that relationships are done and had. This show is for people who want to have better sex on their terms. I truly believe that a sexy world creates a happier and a safer world. And if you want to do your part to create a sexy world, please hit subscribe like and comment wherever you get your podcast episodes. So today we are going to dive into the world of men in Stem. My guest is Dr. Jessica Harvey. Dr. Jessica is the thinking man's intimacy coach. She is an MIT trained organic chemist and founder of Bliss Science. After a successful ten year career as an academic researcher in chemistry and neuroscience, she broke free of lab life to pursue experiments in consciousness and sacred relating. A very different kind of chemistry, you might say. She now calls herself a tantric scientist. She works with CEOs, founders, and leaders in tech, science and consulting, as well as working with women and couples. She's helped hundreds of clients dare to believe that sex and relating deserve at least as much time as working out or developing the latest AI app. I'm delighted to have her on this show. I've been following her for several years on social media and got to meet with her in person earlier this year. I really love the way she blends love and sex with research and science, so I gave the abbreviated version. But I would love to hear more from you about your story. Jessica, how did you get here?

Jessica Harvey [00:02:33]:

Thank you, Deborah. Thank you for that beautiful introduction. And hi, everyone. Yes, how did I get here? So it was really through listening to the voice of my heart and saying yes to what scared me. I'm from West Texas originally, so there was a lot of conservatism in me, a lot of things I was a reflexive no to or afraid to try, afraid of looking foolish or afraid of being rejected. And when I moved to the San Francisco Bay Area to do my PhD, I started being involved very felicitously. I found myself involved in communities that were pushing boundaries in psychology, in sex, in relating, in dance, very open minded places and communities, intentional communities out here. And as it goes, as the story goes, I started going to Burning Man. And Burning Man was a place where, for the first time in my life, nobody cared what my pedigree was. I had been raised that your initials after your name, what school you go to, what family you come from, how much money you have, all of these things are the most important thing about you. It had never occurred to me that there was a third way to do life besides either just working and raising a family or partying. I had never been exposed to the concept of personal growth work. But at Burning Man, the only thing that the people I was camping with cared about was who I was in the present moment, like how able I was to connect and to show up as my authentic self. This was a completely foreign concept to me. But after years and years of going to Burning Man and doing authentic relating, I remember the exact moment it happened. I was in my white lab coat at the time. I was doing some cell biology as a postdoctoral fellow, and I was standing in lab all alone on a weekend pipe heading the same radioactive solution with my multichannel pipe header over a 96 well plate in triplicate. And all of a sudden, some voice rose up from my heart and knocked loudly enough on the door of my mind that I could hear it and was like, you're not supposed to be doing this with your life. And I put down my pipette and was like, oh, no, what is going to happen now? Because imagine I had to face down this wall of shame. What had I done the past ten years pursuing academics and chemistry? Was it all a waste? And I felt a lot of shame with the idea of walking away, but I couldn't not listen. And I wasn't the sort of person that heard voices from my heart or that followed wild dreams like this. I was following the straight and narrow, but I knew I had to do something. So I was married at the time, and my husband and I decided to quit our careers at the time when most people were getting promoted or having babies. And we left everything, and I went to go say yes to what scared me, which means if there was something on offer to do and if I was a reflective no to it, then that meant I was going to do it. So I was really expanding my horizons. And during that period of time, I had some friends teaching at a tantra school in Asia and they said, Come do the workshops. And I said, oh, I read the description and I thought, I'm going to hate that. That looks terrible. And I went and I had what I now recognize as spiritual sexual awakening after a six day workshop and a very intensive ritual where I was catapulted into this other way of being connected with my inner power and where, for the first time in my life, I felt respected because of my feminine qualities, not in spite of them. And I started to ask myself a lot of questions about the narratives I'd been sold, about what makes a meaningful life and the roles I was supposed to be playing. And I stopped trying to be like a man in order to be respected and started learning to play with energy and finally had some really great sex. So that's kind of the short version of how it all went down.

Deborah [00:07:15]:

I love that. And I'm totally cracking up and smiling here. There really is something amazing about when we actually start feeling ourselves and what's possible in our sex. It can change. Well, I mean, it changed your life 180 degrees at least. But there's a couple question, a couple of things I wanted to ask about just in hearing that. And one of the things you mentioned was being a reflexive no. And so I'm really curious about that because I know that many of us, we either can feel our yes or we can feel our no. I'm curious how that feels for you and how you are able to have the no and still move forward.

Jessica Harvey [00:08:13]:

Yeah, that's a really good question, and I'll answer that. And I also want to say the thing about connecting, because for the men in Stem, when I was a scientist in Lab, I had been trained that suppressing my emotions and suppressing my body was the way to excellence, the way to success. And so I was very, very good at that. I was like a machine, like a robot. I suppressed any trace of having a human body as far as I could or being a female. And a lot of men who work in science, technology, engineering, math, we never get any training and connections or the value of emotions or the value of listening to your body. That's all considered like foo foo, even dangerous distractions. And so my relationships were really shallow. Sex was bad. I had trouble having pleasure. And my whole life was married to my to do list. And I was like, one day when I'll arrive, then I'll allow myself to savor life or have pleasure or good sex. So anyway, connection, it gave me my power back to lead a meaningful life now instead of just endlessly waiting and years and decades passing. But the reflexive no. So I have thought about this, and I don't know if it's just my temperament or how I was raised. It's probably both. But coming from conservative West Texas, there's a lot of fear around anything different or anything outside of the norm or anything not Christian. And I think just so much conservatism is kind of like it's about holding yourself back in some ways. It's staying the same. It's not sort of daring or trying new things. At least that's the strain of it I grew up with. And so I had this voice in my head that was very this inner critic that was vociferous. And it may have been my mother's voice, but she did the best that she could, bless her. And yet still I had this critic that sometimes sounded like my mother, that if I stepped a little tiny bit outside of my comfort zone, it would just be like, how dare you do that. I can't believe you're doing that. What are you doing? You're not smart or this is dangerous or everyone's going to talk about you. I mean, it was just endless and my body would just be like to anything that was sort of a little bit different, I would be suspicious and just reject it. I tried to be experimental in some ways, obviously psychedelics and Burning Man, but in a lot of realms, especially the realms of spirituality, of connecting to the body or the emotions, anything that took away from supposed efficiency and success in life. I was a no to meditation and one day I was like, well, if I just keep letting that voice run the show, who put that voice in charge? What is it? Why am I listening to it? And I had to first recognize that there was something that I hadn't quite differentiated from my family, that there was this one voice that was running the show and I got curious, well, what about other voices? Or what's underneath that? What is driving that voice? And my ex husband is a therapist, bless him for partnering with me as a scientist who had done no self insight work or personal growth. But I learned a lot from him and being hanging out with therapists. And so I started to get curious about my inner world, which was a totally unheard of experience for the culture. I grew up in Texas. It was all about externalizing things and this inner insight work, I had to come to it as an adult. So once I realized I didn't have to listen to that voice, but it was still controlling me, I knew I needed exposure, therapy, in a sense. I needed the experience of ignoring it and seeing that I could still survive and be respected. I needed to decide for myself instead of just letting that one thing control me. And so that was how that happened. And a lot of these experiences, at first I had someone with me doing them, so I wasn't alone. That definitely helped a lot.

Deborah [00:13:03]:

Beautiful. I love that. I just have to ask, like, you were in San Francisco and somebody was like, dude, I'm going to Bird and band. You want to come?

Jessica Harvey [00:13:16]:

When I was at MIT, I was a part of the Rebels and the Misfits and the Weirdos from the East Camp as part of MIT. And we were already experimenting a lot with consciousness and queerness and different ways of being. And already some of my friends there were going to Burning Man. And I knew as soon as I got into grad school in California, I was like, oh, I definitely want to go. Yeah.

Deborah [00:13:46]:

Wow. It's funny, it never occurred to me that there was a misfit version of MIT.

Jessica Harvey [00:13:54]:

Oh, yes. It was a very big divide between the straight lace nerds on West Campus and the deviant nerds on East Campus.

Deborah [00:14:03]:

And does west campus and East Campus study different things?

Jessica Harvey [00:14:08]:

No, it's just different. Most of the students live on dorms on campus and so yeah, they were just on opposite sides of the infinite corridor, this very long corridor through the main building that connects the two wings.

Deborah [00:14:24]:

Nice. I had no idea. So a couple of things really have drawn me to your work. First of all, I think your social posts are amazing. They're thoughtful, they are informative and really taking a stand in a way that I just really appreciate. And one of the things that I went ahead and caught my eye was you were talking about smart men specifically and the way that smart men either hold themselves back or sort of push themselves forward. And this idea of one of the things that came up that I really appreciated was you did a post about the creepy man and I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about that.

Jessica Harvey [00:15:29]:

Sure. Gosh I don't remember which post that was exactly but let me think about this.

Deborah [00:15:37]:

Well what I heard when I read it was it was talking about how desire is something that smart men tend to step away from and in stepping away from their desires in sort of overthinking how they're going to interact not just with women but with people in general. It sort of comes out sideways.

Jessica Harvey [00:16:10]:

Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. So, first of all, I want to say I love working with men because I feel I can relate as a scientist who was just so disconnected from my body and trying to logic my way through life and thinking, of advice as the gold standard for what you do, for how you talk to your partner and all of these things and just being in Lab and being in kind of a very hyper, individualistic, head oriented culture for so long. And when I grew up though, there was a lot of shaming of men. And even now I saw when I started my business seven years ago, so much shaming of men in the media and when I had my sexual awakening I had a moment of like wait a minute, what's it like to I, what's it like to be a man? Because I connected with my desire and my desire was so strong when I let myself admit what was going on in my body and I was like, oh my gosh, is this what men are experiencing? And yet I didn't see anyone reaching out a hand to try to understand their experience or empathize and I thought, well this is something I would like to do because I know women want amazing partners but we're not going to get incredible partners by shaming the people we want to partner with. And so it's been really beautiful and I think something about working with a woman gives men permission to be more vulnerable than they might be if they're working with a man. Or sometimes it's just too much to talk about your sexual life with another man, but it's easier with a woman. And so what I want to say about the creepy aspect so I know that a lot of having talked to so many men and really understood what they're going through, I know that men really care about women and are crazy about women and want to have a great relationship and really want to be received as trustworthy as a trustworthy presence for a woman. And so men have heard what women said in the feminist revolution and in me too. They were like, okay, yeah, I understand. I get it. I can see how we have caused harm through these power structures, and even the power structure structures harm men as well. And that's a different, more complicated issue. But so men heard women and they were like, okay, well, I don't want to harm women anymore, so I'm just going to sort of castrate myself and put aside my desire, suppress it, or just try to be very kind. And when you do that, you become what's called a nice guy, archetype a pleaser. But your desire is actually still there in your body, and if you're ignoring it, it's going to come out in ways like compulsive porn use or even peeping Tom scenarios that some of my clients have gone through or a lot of anger. It can fester inside of you and cause unconscious behaviors that actually end up causing harm. So you're kind of caught between a rock and a hard place, right? I don't want to harm women by being a sexual being in the world and expressing my desire, but if I suppress it, that ultimately also comes out in these shadowy, sideways ways that can be harmful.

Deborah [00:19:46]:

And then on top of it, you get this other message that is like, but women want they want this kind of aggressive behavior from men at the same time. So it's a super confusing puzzle of how to do that and how to be that.

Jessica Harvey [00:20:11]:

You're supposed to want sex all the time and have sex with everything that moves while also being a completely loyal husband and father and never looking at anyone else for the rest of your life. Like, what is this?

Deborah [00:20:24]:

And I know that you said this is a more complicated issue, but I think that's actually part of the way that our culture damages men ultimately, is both men and women get these crazy messages about who we're supposed to be, and they're all pretty much in contrast or not contrast, they're in conflict with each other. It's like, for women, we're supposed to be the lady in the streets and the tart in the sheets. And for men, they're supposed to be the provider and the strong warrior, but actually also supposed to be able to give their heart to their to their loved ones. And so, I mean, in general, society does us very few favors whether wherever we are on the gender spectrum, I.

Jessica Harvey [00:21:26]:

Wish I could see more couples that would help each other, that we could collaborate together on having an amazing relational and sexual life. But sadly, we don't get any training in that. We're just expected to know based on all these toxic messages from the media and from dogmatic religion. And we're trying to partner in ways that are unheard of in human history. Expecting so much from each other while being in a nuclear family and trying to raise kids while having two breadwinners. It's just untenable. And I don't think it's fair that nobody tells us that that is just going to kill your sex life and not work unless you really train yourself in relating. Yeah.

Deborah [00:22:06]:

How do you train yourself in relating?

Jessica Harvey [00:22:11]:

Yes. So that's a great question. And there are so many opportunities today, and I have to say, guys, I know that some part of our brain is still might be thinking, oh, this is shameful. I should already know. It should just be natural. But no, there's no way for you to already know. This is a totally new paradigm and it's definitely not natural.

Deborah [00:22:33]:

It's funny. I was listening to somebody I can't remember off the top of my head, and they were talking about the fact.

Jessica Harvey [00:22:44]:

That.

Deborah [00:22:47]:

Before the nuclear family, when we were living in bigger families, we would have more understanding of what it was that sexuality was. Now, again, that was a very limited form in and of itself, but it was a very different kind of sex education. And the sex education that we get today, if we get one, is so it's incredibly fear based. And there's nothing around pleasure. There's nothing around. Basically, we're all told that there's pretty much one way have sex. Two people come together, there's escalation, there is penetration, there's climax, and then there's napping and there's a baby. And that's the only reason that you do that. But I found in my work and I'm imagining you found this as well, that, like, as creatures, you know, as as embodied creatures, we have sex for so many different reasons. You know, there is procreation, there's stress release, there's fun, there's, you know, for some folks, it's a place where they actually get to unwind enough to be emotional and to have some of those, like, pillow talk is a really important part of relationships. At least I believe it to be a very important part of relationships.

Jessica Harvey [00:24:26]:

Yeah. And touching the sacred. It's a really special, energetic space that's unlike anything else we experience in our day to day lives sex and intimacy. And I like to tell men that, well, nowadays men are dealing with female partners who are so shamed from purity, culture and asthma's only education. Women who can't speak any words about their sexuality or even couldn't consider saying what they like or what they asking for, what they want. And so men I want you to know that a really integrated, consent based sexuality from you is such a gift. Like you could really open a space for healing, for your partner, for her to discover her power and so much pleasure and deep surrender and oneness things that she's never been taught before now, don't let it go to your head. Don't walk around saying like, I am the healer of all women. That's not what that was meant to be for. That's happened in some tantric communities.

Deborah [00:25:31]:

It definitely has happened some tantric communities. But I'm curious, you mentioned an authentic based, authentic, consent based sexuality and I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about what you mean by that.

Jessica Harvey [00:25:52]:

Yeah, good question. So what I love teaching men is that women actually desire to feel your primal sexual energy. They want to feel that you're alive, that you're powerful, that you can protect her. And so what I mean by integrated is that you're neither suppressing nor projecting out your sexual energy, but you have made friends with it and it runs through your body and you can direct it through your body in intentional ways to bring you more vitality, to bring you more power to lead your life and be creative. And a lot of men that I work with, they find an area below their belt to kind of be black or a dark hole or the only relationship they've ever had with their sexual center, their sexual organs, is to criticize them or to be afraid of how they're going to perform or not. And when I say, hey, we need to make friends with this part of your body because it is an amazing part that women will love when wielded again in an integrated, consent based way. And that just kind of blows their mind. Just that unshaming of like, wow, you could make friends with your penis.

Deborah [00:27:17]:

Hearing you say that reminds me kind of the cliche around like the small head is doing the leading. And I always say there is wisdom there. There is incredible wisdom in the genitals, whatever version you have of them. I think on both sides that get shamed a lot. But I really love what you're saying because what I'm seeing a lot of, and you may or may not be seeing this, but I get a lot of people coming to me for erectile dysfunction. And when we actually sit back and have conversations about it, it's not so much a dysfunction, it's that that wisdom that's there in the cock is not being listened to is not being.

Jessica Harvey [00:28:16]:

I.

Deborah [00:28:16]:

Was going to say it doesn't have a place at the table, but there I am mixing that. I love it.

Jessica Harvey [00:28:22]:

Yeah, I had an older man tell me that his whole life it felt like being chained to an idiot. Like having a penis and having sexual desire was so challenging. It was like being chained to an idiot. Oh my god, what have we done to ourselves and to men? Like, this is challenging. It's humbling being human. And so as a scientist, when I came to Neotandra, I was like, what the fuck is this? Where did this come from? I don't trust it. This makes no sense. Show me the source papers of where you're getting this, because I just didn't trust the individual teachers and their biases and things. And so eventually, I took on this huge research project of trying to understand what is the actual Tantric wisdom. And I read in the original Sanskrit texts, translations of them, what they were actually saying about working with sexuality. And it blew my mind that in, like, sacred texts, sacred religious texts, they were talking about engaging with sexuality as a sacred practice, and not just for having children, but for awakening and liberation from suffering. It's true. They really did. And the Tantric tradition has passed down to us this incredible permission slip of here. Bring your awareness to your sexual energy. Don't shame it. And this is what you do with it using your breath, your awareness, your body and visualizations and your sacred practice. And so when I first got these tools, I thought I could not believe I was actually outraged. Why did nobody ever teach this to me? That I could dance with my sexual energy, that I could really intentionally and skillfully move it through my body and develop excellence in intimacy? Wow. Why were these teachings hidden?

Deborah [00:30:30]:

I just have to go back for a second. First of all, I love that you did the research project and that that is what you found, because, you know, there are so many different most spiritual practices. This is the thing I love about Tantra. When I discovered that there was a spiritual practice that said, your body is cool, it is a vehicle to be used for bigger and better things, you use the words liberation and awakening, and I'm really curious what you mean by that.

Jessica Harvey [00:31:09]:

Yeah, so, I mean, most of the people that come to work with me aren't necessarily here for those aspects. And that's fine. We can do a lot of beautiful, freeing, permission granting work together. But originally, the Tantric tradition was a spiritual practice even considered a religion, one of the major ones of the Indian subcontinent from about the year 400 to 1400 of the Common Era that influenced, you know, Buddhism and Zen and spread to China and Japan and Tibet and other places. But awakening is really awakening to the fact that you are not a separate, isolated ego structure, that you are part of this greater whole. You are part of the divine. And liberation is liberation from suffering from your ingrained patterns and habits and unconscious or conscious blocks that are holding you back and just being free to be completely your authentic self. So those are spiritual concepts that have to do with liberation from thinking that you are like a separate ego structure.

Deborah [00:32:24]:

I'm curious. You said that the men that come to you may or may not be looking for that, but what do you find that they are looking for?

Jessica Harvey [00:32:35]:

Usually very practical yes, very practical oriented solutions. And there was something else I wanted to say about the men. Well, I just wanted to say first, instead of thinking of studying sex and relating and studying excellence and intimacy, as I like to say, as something shameful or outside the box, I like to look at it as a research project. And I've taken on this grand research project of what does it really mean to authentically relate rather than playing out unconscious narratives or roles in my mind, in this whole new paradigm of relating, where we're rediscovering how we can really be there for each other as friends and lovers over the course of a lifetime. And understanding the nervous system the way we do today, which is different from at any other time in history. How do we put together spiritual concepts, neotontric concepts, shadow work concepts, science to understand, okay, how do I research? Like, what is the manual then for really having the delightful bonding and play and intimacy over the long term with a partner? How do I need to communicate? How do I need to take care of myself? How do I need to deal with my emotions? I'll tell you, guys, women do want your beautiful oxytocin inducing empathy and emotional awareness. And we also want a little bit of that dangerous spark with a consent, of course. We want to feel your power. And when you mix those two things of both, like powerful, strong, commanding with the gentleness and the care, it's just irresistible.

Deborah [00:34:21]:

It's funny. As I was listening to you talking about power, I wanted to point out that I think so I should say that I am particularly in love with the smart man. I'm a total daddy's girl. My dad was a PhD in mathematics. He taught at the university level my whole life. I grew up on the university level, surrounded by these really smart men. And what was so interesting to me, especially as you were talking about power, is it's like there is a power of the mind. There is a power of the body and presence. And I imagine that when men work with you, they get to discover both. My whole body is just lighting up because it's like when you have for those of us that really like smart men, people in general, there is something about being able to there's a difference between feeling a guy who's in his head and feeling a man who's in his body.

Jessica Harvey [00:35:41]:

Yeah. And most of the men I work with have been taught to only exclusively rely on the power of the mind. And they think that's the only power. And that was my case. I was only power of the mind. All mind and all. I knew how to do in relationship was give advice. And I'll tell you guys, if all you do with your woman is give advice, it will kill the sex immediately and it will not return. And so being able to develop energetic agility and range like, yes, let's honor the mind sometimes that's exactly what we want. But what if you also had the power of the body and the power of your presence? That's what she wants.

Deborah [00:36:28]:

Well, in a minute I'm going to ask you if you have some more specific tools or tips for actually getting into the body. But first I want to just take a moment and tell people how it is that the Better Sex Podcast is supported. Sex is kind of a complicated subject, as you may have noticed by the conversations. And unfortunately, most of us don't grow up in an environment where we get to talk about sex or where it's welcome. And that's why the Better Sex podcast came into existence. And a podcast is a great place to start, but let's face it, it's not a place where you have practice. So I created the Better Sex membership and it's a place where you get to practice all of these things that we talk about here on the podcast. And if you want to learn more, there are details in the show notes and I would love to talk to you more about that. But right now I want to bring the attention back to Dr. Jessica and her wisdom. So I'm curious for the men and women and couples who are listening to us here today, do you have some things that they can start putting into practice right away?

Jessica Harvey [00:37:55]:

Yeah, absolutely. I'll speak mostly to men, but women can do this too. So a lot of the men come to work with me because the sex has died in their long term relationship, or they're single and dating, but they just can't get the women. They like to be interested in them, and they're trying to figure out, what am I doing that's not attracting the quality woman who can deeply meet me on every level that I want. Or they're coming because they're having some version of performance anxiety, right? Like challenges with erections or ejaculating before they want to or not being able to ejaculate at all. And these are all things that are honestly, I think they're so much fun to work with because you can definitely make progress on them, especially using Neotontric tools, whereas if you go to the doctor, they're just going to give you a pill and never address the underlying issues. But one of the things that causes a lot of these problems is that men tend to have their awareness vector out, like everything is outward facing. They're focused on trying to ask their woman for more sex or thinking about why don't women like me? Or just like not having they're very aware of the outside world, which can be a gift in some ways, but very little awareness of. If you turn that vector 180 degrees back down and look inside yourself, that is often an unknown concept. But tantra is all about turning back, to look down and in rather than up and out. So we're turning that vector of awareness back in to, again, make friends with your penis to figure out your authentic desires. But one of the first things that I do with men, to have them come back to themselves so that you become like a brilliant, sparkling invitation for women to come towards you so that you're centered and grounded in yourself instead of always just going out towards someone else. Is this central channel meditation that's inspired by my classical tantric studies and by a meditation from the Vigyanabada Vatantra, one of the most famous tantric texts from around the year 900. And it's inhaling through the nose, inhaling down to your pelvic floor, and then exhaling through the mouth, exhaling the air, up out the crown of your head, and then inhaling down to your pelvic floor, exhaling out the mouth, up out the crown of your head. And as you do this, you're following the breath with your awareness, and you're creating a through line, a central channel through the middle of your body, and you're becoming aware of what's it like to be me right now. And then every time something comes at you, like a destabilizing emotion or a situation where you're not feeling confident or you're feeling off your center, you can come back to this practice of inhaling down and exhaling up, which is a different way than many people have been taught to breathe. But with tantra, we often do things the opposite of what's expected. And so there's many depths to this meditation, many specific ways to use the breath, to use the visualization, and then incorporating pleasure. As you're breathing, I want you to feel like your breath is washing back and forth across your body like a wave, and even allow yourself to undulate, allow yourself to that. It could feel good. So many times in other traditions, we think, meditation, I must sit stiff and straight, and it cannot feel good. That's aesthetic practice. Tantric practice is not about that. And so the idea of not only inner awareness, but I could let this feel good, I could just feel good in my own body without any external stimulation is often not a common practice for men. But when you start to feel your own pleasure cup in this way, that is how you become more attractive and magnetic to quality women.

Deborah [00:42:18]:

So I just want to get this straight. So the breath comes in through the nose down, and it goes down. Are we using our imagination for it to go down? Are we, like, feeling something down?

Jessica Harvey [00:42:38]:

Both so your lungs are expanding down, your diaphragm is pulling downward, and you relax your lower belly relax your pelvic floor. Just see all the bottom part of you relaxing and expanding on the inhale. So this already is unshaming of your whole genital area. As you're like breathing and imagining the breath goes down there, and as you imagine that it goes down there, you will actually feel something like an expansion, a relaxation. And then as you exhale through the mouth, back up the center, and out the crown of your head, you're also just visualizing that the breath is going there. And as you come to the crown of your head and fully let go your sense of self, you can surrender to the vastness, to the cosmos. And it's just delicious. Like giving yourself over relaxation sort of thing.

Deborah [00:43:33]:

Oh my gosh, I wish you guys could see her. So first of all, her face is completely lit up from just a moment ago. And as she was talking through it, her hands were moving down on the inhale. They were coming down and then on the exhale, she was moving them up, up past her head and opening them up to invite in the crown.

Jessica Harvey [00:43:59]:

It was great. Beautiful.

Deborah [00:44:01]:

Thank you. God, I just had a great question and I can't remember what it was. Oh, I know what it was. So, talking about being more attractive to women, I had this thought. Do you work with your guys around how to read some of the signs that women are giving?

Jessica Harvey [00:44:35]:

Sure, yeah.

Deborah [00:44:40]:

Go ahead.

Jessica Harvey [00:44:42]:

So sometimes they say, well, things like she may be arguing with you, or she may be protesting, or she may be angry, but probably what she wants underneath that is to feel your heart and to feel connection. So what would it be like to move toward her and embrace her and say, hey baby, I love you. It's okay, right? No arguing, no fixing, nothing like that, but just giving your presence, your heart and your structure. You're like masculine structure as a man that she can relax into. So just to start to notice what's it like to go underneath all of the words straight to the heart of the emotion or the need that is happening, for example.

Deborah [00:45:30]:

Yeah, no, and I really want to underscore the no fixing piece. And I love, again, smart men, I love that you are fixing the world's problems. Thank you for that. And sometimes just by having your presence there, those problems start to unwind. Sometimes it's not so much about as Jessica was saying earlier, giving the advice, but really it's about your presence. One of the things that I like to talk about in my events is that it's not what you say, it's how you show up.

Jessica Harvey [00:46:24]:

And this is science, you guys. This isn't random woo stuff. We actually know this, that a regulated nervous system allows your partner's nervous system to regulate. It allows her to calm down. So that is actually one of the biggest gifts you can give her. And I don't know, but nobody ever taught you this or the tools or to value this body awareness and self regulation. But it's so powerful.

Deborah [00:46:50]:

So what are you passionate about these days? What are you working on?

Jessica Harvey [00:46:56]:

Oh, that's a great question. I am still just incredibly passionate about actually my classical Tantric studies. So I love studying the old Sanskrit text and the metaphysics and the philosophy of classical Tantra, like nondual Shiva Tantra. Secretly I'm just watching all the talks and doing all the studies that I can in that area. But what I've also always been passionate about is really creating a space where I have a men's sex mastermind and a women's sex master, sex and relationship mastermind. And I have this big vision that to have this place where men and women can train, can learn energetic agility, and do the great research project of relating and then come together and practice after they've both done this work, because that's what happened to me. I was living at this Tantra school where the men did their practice and the women did their practice. Unfortunately, it was not very non binary friendly, but eventually I would like to have that as well. But we would all do our practice and then we would come together and to do rituals and to relate after having our own time, to look at our own stuff. And it was so beautiful and helpful to have a shared language, a shared lens, a shared community. Like you really need community to heal and grow in this way. And so many men are isolated and they always say like, where can I find a quality woman? And I say, well, what communities are you hanging out in? Right? So one of my big visions is definitely to build a community for people to find each other and do this work together in an exciting way. Because guys, when you develop the agility and the skill to master your own energy, not just sexual energy, but your emotions and your body, and you can meet life's challenges with so much power and presence. That is so hot. It's so much hotter to a quality woman than like a six pack, or how tall you are, or how much money you make.

Deborah [00:49:10]:

I'm particularly cracking up because one of the most, and I put this in air, quote, successful with women. Men I know is literally fifor and pudgy, but his presence, his ability to be connected to himself and the women that he's with is just off the charge. He was also a tech dude that came to that point where it was like, I want to study women. And what he found was studying women meant studying himself. And I really want to underscore the community piece because one of the things that I've been reading about is that particularly men starts in their late thirty s and goes on. It's like they have less and less male friends which means they have less and less support. And so I really just you know, the value of being in a group of other men is so important. And I'd like you to just take a moment and talk a little bit about your Mastermind, because I'm so excited about it.

Jessica Harvey [00:50:35]:

Thank you. So the current this year's Mastermind, it's six months. It started about a month ago, and we do a lot of neotuntric and classical tantric approaches there. And it's so beautiful. I mean, last night I got off the call with the men, and I had tears in my eyes because it's so real. It's so beautiful to see and hear what their challenges are and how much they care and how much they're willing to step up and say, no, this needs to change. And when people get together and start to know each other, especially men, to know each other on these deep levels, and you've been in a program where you've talked about sex and done sexual practices together, those guys are friends for life, and then you can talk to them about anything. Right. It's not just surface level locker room talk. You can really say, hey, man, I noticed when I was having sex recently, this thing started happening. Imagine the value of having a male friend like that in your life, and it's not embarrassing to bring that up.

Deborah [00:51:39]:

Yeah. And also having a male friend in your life that's willing to say, dude, that's not cool. You need to come back into your integrity. I know that you're better than that.

Jessica Harvey [00:51:54]:

Yeah, absolutely. And so these guys, they're meeting up with each other already outside of class. They're, like having phone calls, they're sharing notes. I mean, they are on top of it, and it's just a really beautiful thing to see. And I feel honored by their trust and so excited to keep offering this program. So that's ongoing. You'll have to wait till I launch it again to join. But what is happening in July, starting July 10, is my Men's sexual confidence training, which is a really easy four week course if you're having challenges with erections or early Ejaculation or delayed Ejaculation. This is like the Neotuntric approach to solving those performance anxieties for good. It's really helpful. It'll help you get unstuck, feel really confident in who you are. And I've seen it work with so many men. So it's just four weeks. There's pre recorded classes and two live Q and A's with me, plus embodied practices. Right. So, again, you don't have to convince yourself of anything. You don't have to try really hard or think the right thoughts. It's working with your body and your identity of who you are and who you believe you can be will change your life. I wish every man could do this training, like, when he turned 18, so that you didn't have to struggle with this stuff later on.

Deborah [00:53:17]:

So good. So excited. So where do people find you?

Jessica Harvey [00:53:23]:

Yes, these days, I do a lot of writing on my personal Facebook page. My personal Facebook. I still have an old Sanskrit name in my name. Jessica Ananya. A-N-A-N-Y-A harvey can find me there on Facebook, on Instagram, at Bliss Science, on TikTok, at Bliss Science, also on LinkedIn. Harvey So those are some of the main ways to find me right now. Yeah. Beautiful.

Deborah [00:53:57]:

And we'll put the links in the show notes. I highly, highly recommend you check out her face. Well, I find you mostly on Facebook, but your posts are really just such good stuff. Well written, really smart, completely heartfelt, no shame, just such good stuff. And I just can't speak highly enough about Jessica's work and just so thrilled that you've come to share your perspectives, your work with us and yeah, thank you so much. And on that note, I just want to thank you all for listening to the Better Sex podcast. Please, like, subscribe comment, share this episode with somebody who needs to hear about it, and help us all create a sexier and safer world. Thank you. Bye. Just.