Kinks, Fetishes, and Boundaries: A Deep Dive with Miss Em

In this episode of The Better Sex Podcast, I chat with Dominatrix and kink educator Miss. Em, who brings over 20 years of experience in the world of BDSM, fetishes, and power dynamics. Hear about how her early curiosity around taboo desires became a calling—and how she uses passion, presence, and emotional intelligence to create safe, transformative experiences.

During this conversation, Miss. Em shares her insights on everything from the origins of fetish and submission to the importance of aftercare and the art of psychological play. We explore how kink isn’t always about sex—and how rituals, scent, and memory can create deep arousal and connection.

Along the way, we talk about what it means to be an ethical Dominant, the surprising challenges of online BDSM, and why honest communication is at the center of any powerful erotic exchange.

This episode invites you to drop the shame, get curious, and expand your understanding of intimacy—through the lens of kink, consent, and deep trust.

Connect with Miss Em 

Website -  https://www.sultrymissem.com/  

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sultrymissem/

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Questions and Answers 

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Podcast Feedback DeborahTantraKat@Gmail.com 

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In our commitment accessibility, help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. The transcription is far from perfect, and in some cases quite amusing. As we grow edited transcripts are on the list in the meantime please enjoy.

Deborah [00:00:00]:

All right, well then, in that case, welcome to the Better Sex Podcast. My name is Deborah Kat and I am your shameless host. This is the Better Sex Podcast where we have unfiltered conversations about sex and relationship. This. These conversations are frank and explicit and may not be appropriate for all audiences. So please listen with care. I truly believe that a sexy world creates a happier and a safer world. If you want to do your part in creating a safe and sexy world, please hit like, subscribe and leave a message.

Deborah [00:00:56]:

Today we're going to dive into the world of my guest, the sultry Ms. M. She's been a Dom for over 20 years and has been interested in fetishes for even longer. She is extremely open minded and interested in helping you explore your normal or not so normal fetishes. And as it turns out, she can guarantee that if something turns you on, I'm imagining it also turns someone else on. She offers accountability, coaching, card readings, and education for various types of kink and BDSM. So welcome Ms. M.

Deborah [00:01:39]:

I Ms. Sultry M. I am so delighted that you are here. I'm looking forward to diving into this conversation and learning more about your world and what you do. Thank you. Well, you're so very welcome. So tell us a little bit like, how did you. How did you get into this world?

Ms. M [00:02:01]:

Honestly, it's. People ask me that all the time and it's been so long since I've started that I have some trouble remembering my origin story. I guess I was raised with pretty strict views on like, waiting till marriage to have sex. And so it was always kind of a taboo thing. And so that probably helped make me curious about a world that I didn't know about. And so I would ask a lot of questions and I would talk to people even when I was young. And then as I grew into myself and found myself at university and exploring different worlds and meeting different people. And I've just kind of always been curious about what people are passionate about in general in the world.

Ms. M [00:02:51]:

And that just leads a lot to what makes them tick. Because whether it's what your favorite food is or why you think you've been put on this planet, or whether it's what your favorite thing is that turns you on or gets you off, it's all kind of in the same realm of figuring out what you're passionate about.

Deborah [00:03:14]:

I love that. And what are you passionate about?

Ms. M [00:03:20]:

So it sounds so cheesy, but I say all the time I'm passionate about passion because I want to hear all the time about what really fuels other people. I will happily sit and listen to somebody rant and talk about something that I just don't care about if they're speaking about it because it makes them happy. And they're voice speeds up and their cheeks get red and they get excited. Like it doesn't even matter what the topic is. I get excited when people can feel passion for anything. Like, I really don't care if it's cheese or your favorite sci fi movie or whatever it is. I get excited when other people show that they're capable of getting excited.

Deborah [00:04:06]:

And what are some of the fun things like, or surprising things that people are passionate about? Like, is there something or can you, you know, does something come to mind when I, when I ask that around? Like.

Ms. M [00:04:22]:

Personally, I mean, I always surprise people with how passionate I am when I talk about cheese of any and all types. So I mean, going the other way, that one always makes people chuckle. But hearing what other people talk about specifically, like in regards to what we're talking about today, one of my favorites, having the conversation to help people understand where their fetishes came from, why they're so turned on by something. Everyone thinks their origin story is so unique and they're the only person in the world that has that fetish and this and that. And then when some of them are easier to break down than others. Like, tell me about the calendar of 50s pinup models that your dad had on the garage wall when you were 13 years old and you used to hang out with him in there. Oh, that's why. Like curvy ladies and red lipstick.

Ms. M [00:05:15]:

Or tell me about your elementary school teacher who always wore high heels and stockings. And I don't mean to bring children into the conversation. Those just happen to be our formative years and that's when we're most influenced into figuring out what turns us on. And so I get excited about watching people's faces light up or hearing the change in their voice once they realize why they like what they like, because it can absolutely add another level to their pleasure.

Deborah [00:05:47]:

That's so, that's so interesting. I'm like, so what do you think the most common origin story around stepping into one's dom self would be?

Ms. M [00:06:01]:

That's a good question. I would say there's, it's probably one of two, and they're probably opposites. Either one, somebody wasn't outspoken when they were young and didn't feel like they had a voice or that people didn't listen to them and then they found themselves in a position where all of a sudden, their voice is the most important and people are absolutely listening. So it could be one extreme or just somebody who always knew what they wanted in life, whether it was what cookie they wanted from the plate or whether it was what school they wanted to go to or what they wanted to study or, you know, anything. What color they wanted to paint their bedroom. And so I would say I would be curious. That would be a really fun study, actually, to study a whole bunch of dominant people and find out if it's one of those two or if there's something like completely opposite.

Deborah [00:06:57]:

And what about. What about submissive folks? What would you say the origin story around that is?

Ms. M [00:07:04]:

That one, Because I've interacted with so many submissive folks for my personal experiences, so many of them, it would be like the opposite story. It's where they're very much in charge of things in their life. They have high power positions. They have to make the decisions. They feel like their role in the world is to make sure that everything runs smoothly. And therefore they just want a space where they don't have to make decisions. And so it's a space where they can give up that control and let somebody else who they trust take the reins and be in charge and they can just melt into it and have an experience where outside of negotiations ahead of time, they don't really have to make a lot of choices.

Deborah [00:07:55]:

Yeah. You know, and it's interesting hearing you say that, because I think in. In my professional life, that's probably pretty right on the mark. And yet there's so many different flavors of, you know, there's so many different flavors of. Of dominance, but there's also so many different flavors of submission, you know, and what one of.

Ms. M [00:08:20]:

One of my favorites was, I had a guy that was passing through town because I also do in person sessions with being in Canada, it's very much legal for me to do what I do in that sense. And he was actually in town for a couple weeks because he was a drill sergeant and he was here to work at one of the military training places. And he was very much somebody who was used to always having to be in charge and always yelling and keeping everybody else in line. And he loved to just give it up. And he was a huge guy. Like, he had to be six, put three, and just like built like somebody who was kind of always carrying suitcases even when he wasn't. And you just wanted to not be the big guy in charge anymore and just kind of melt into that submissive space and have his experiences. And it kind of makes it.

Ms. M [00:09:18]:

It's a different feeling when you have somebody who is submissive in their day to day life and then is submissive in play sessions versus somebody who is in charge in their day to day life and then submissive in PlayStations. They're both wonderful, but they do land quite differently because the energy is quite different.

Deborah [00:09:36]:

Yes. You're saying that one of the people that I remember is somebody who wanted to be punished. And I don't know if this was actually true or this was just the story he was coming to me with, although I did notice that it did coincide with visits. But he claimed to be the. On the staff of a very conservative Republican person and like he just wanted to be punished. Which of course, you know, worked for me.

Ms. M [00:10:18]:

Yes, I've had some of those that work for very conservative government groups and then just want to come and cross dress and be so many of the things that their job is so very against. So. Yeah.

Deborah [00:10:34]:

And what are some of the. So first of all, I mean, I'm curious if you could say more about what a fetish actually is.

Ms. M [00:10:45]:

So. So there's technical definitions and my understanding, I did not look it up recently, but my understanding is technically a fetish is something that is required to achieve whatever your goal is, whether it's orgasm or subspace, where your, you know, your mind is kind of melty or whatever the goal is that the fetish is something that is absolutely required to get there versus a kink, which is something that you're just interested in. I follow more of the modern understanding that they're kind of interchangeable. Like the word literally doesn't actually mean literally anymore in today's modern day usages. Right. It means figuratively as well. And so as words change, I'm more of that. So I, I kind of use kink and fetish interchangeably.

Ms. M [00:11:39]:

I don't think one's required and one's not. It can also be some people look at one is like a physical item versus one is like a situation. But I've seen those go back and forth as to which is which as well which. So it's hard to know exactly, which is why it's always good to talk to people and find out what their definitions are.

Deborah [00:12:02]:

Absolutely. So I'm curious, could you give an example of a physical version versus a situational version?

Ms. M [00:12:13]:

So a physical would be leather gloves, fishnets, a paddle. So like a physical material item that needs to be present and then a situation would be. Could be being restrained, but it doesn't necessarily matter what you're restrained with. So that's where some of them are interchangeable. Because if you're. One could be a physical thing, could be satin scarves tied around your wrist. Another person could be just tied up. Doesn't matter if they're satin scarves.

Ms. M [00:12:47]:

So there's. They go back and forth. So yeah, it could be being restrained, it could be physical pain, it could be deprivation, whether it's blindfolded, ears covered, something like face sitting, where breath control is happening. So that's where they, they definitely cross over, but they can also be completely separate things.

Deborah [00:13:10]:

You. Do you have particular favorites of what like you like to play with?

Ms. M [00:13:15]:

Yes. And warning to your listeners. Mine are not usually uncomfortable for people with penises and testicles, but I very much enjoy cock and ball torture, which guarantee half your listeners just like inadvertently cross their legs a little bit, realizing they did and are now laughing as they relax back into their seated position. However doesn't mean like steel toed boots to the testicles first off, it just means stimulating because there's so many nerves in that area of the body and you can do that, you know, with vulva beings as well. I just personally do not. That's not generally who my clients are. So people that have penises and testicles, there's so many nerves and so there's so many ways to stimulate them. And it's definitely like a warm up thing, similar to anyone who does kind of flogging or spanking.

Ms. M [00:14:12]:

Like you don't just haul off and hit somebody as hard as you can straight off the bat. You're warming up skin, you're awakening nerds, you're starting with different sensations and then gradually building upon it. And it's fun because so many people, their instant response is no. Because everyone's taught, you know, you're supposed to treat that area so delicately. And it's the worst thing ever to, you know, kick somebody in the balls. And it can be when it's non consensual and it's not in the right headspace and you're not set up for it and it's not done by somebody who knows what they're doing, but it can also be really a lot of fun and, and really neat to see just how many different sensations. Because whether you're scratching the skin, whether you're adding a, like a burning sensation, like a peppermint oil or an icy hot, whether you're squishing something flat, whether you're hitting something on the surface, whether you're Pulling, whether you're inserting. There's so many different types of sensation to put on areas that have a lot of nerves.

Ms. M [00:15:17]:

And it's neat to work through those different options with people who don't have a lot of experience with it to see what they like, because everyone's different and what combinations they like and how much more they can take than they would have thought they could. And my favorite is, is that I have never once in all of my experience had somebody that was willing to try it that didn't end up loving it. Because people hear torture and they think it's just the worst. But it's actually just a variety of stimulation other than pleasure based ones, which are what people are used to for those body parts.

Deborah [00:15:54]:

Thank you. You, you mentioned the, the, the phrase warmup and I, I'd love it if you could, you know, elaborate a little bit on what you mean by that.

Ms. M [00:16:04]:

Absolutely. So, I mean, I'm not a medical person, but from like a medical or physiological standpoint, you've got nerves, you've got different levels of skin, you've got all this kind of stuff happening in the body. And so we'll go with say, spanking, for example. If I have somebody that's coming to me for a spanking session, I am not going to, you know, bend them over the table or the couch or my lap or whatever the position is and just haul off and start hitting cool, like room temperature skin as hard as I can. That's going to hurt a lot. It's going to potentially damage something if I hit it the wrong way. So we do. And I say we as in what I would consider safe, practicing professional people who know what they're doing type situations.

Ms. M [00:16:54]:

When it comes to bdsm, you warm up the skin first. And so that's going to be literally rubbing the skin. Light taps. I always start with my hand if I'm going to do spanking and that kind of stuff. And then it's building up as the blood rushes to the surface of the skin. The skin and the nerves can then take different types of hit, different levels of hit, that kind of thing. And then if I'm going to pull in toys like paddles or crops or giant wooden spoons or all these other goodies that are behind me or in the closet. So that would be what the warmup is, is it's getting the skin to accommodate more and more and more.

Ms. M [00:17:34]:

And that's quite common in a lot of situations where you're going to introduce anything that is potentially going to Be painful because, yeah, just a straight haul off in a slop, someone's going to be able to take, you know, two or three versus five minutes of warming that skin up, and they're going to be able to take a lot more impact. And it mixes the pleasure and pain. So that's from a physical reaction. It also works in the mind, because the mind, then you are flushing with endorphins and all those good feeling hormones are flooding the body. And therefore your brain is now on board along with your body being on board. And they play really well together in any kind of BDSM situation. And so it's really neat to watch how people I've mentioned subspace or get melty. And so where their brain, you know, you get out of just thinking about it and you kind of ease into the feeling of what's happening.

Ms. M [00:18:33]:

And that can be the words that are coming out of my mouth. It can be the physical touch, it can be scents that I have set up that, you know, maybe trigger certain things. I mentioned using Icy Hot. So, you know, if I've used Icy Hot with a client in the past, and then all of a sudden they smell Icy Hot, their brain remembers what that sensation was. And so there's this, like, mind that adds. And so once you get the brain and the body playing together, you can play them off each other, you can play together for each other. But it makes the whole situation, no matter what kind of placing you're doing, it just, oh, it's so much better. And that's where I have no problem with people starting out.

Ms. M [00:19:20]:

But people have to be careful with what they start and understand the responsibility of topping or being a dom for somebody else. You take on a lot of responsibility in that role for someone's safety, mentally, physically, emotionally, all of that. And so for anyone who's wanting to play with, with you know, more intense things, that's where coming to somebody who has experience, whether it's professional or lifestyle, that makes all the difference. Because, you know, if somebody went to some, if there was a client of mine who wanted to go see somebody else for some kind of intense cock and ball torture, like, by all means, give it a try, but make sure they know what they're doing because it's not actually stepping on your testicles until they pop, which is now you need surgery. And this is like actual physical. It's. It's not getting flogged by somebody who doesn't understand where the kidneys are in the body and that hitting those because they're so Close to the surface can lead to a lot of potential bad things. Like, there's a lot of risk that comes with BDSM play.

Ms. M [00:20:22]:

There's a lot of fun that comes with BDSM play. And so it's really important to make sure that both parties kind of know what they're involved with. I know that's a side tangent, but it's one that I'm very passionate about, is making sure that people play safely.

Deborah [00:20:36]:

Oh, I love that. Thank you for. And thank you for. For that, bringing that in, because it is so important. And one of the things, you know, back in the day, people used to find each other in very different ways. Like, you kind of used to have to know someone who knew someone who, you know, and there was like, may a few underground magazines and maybe a book or two that was sold in. In, you know, in a. In a.

Deborah [00:21:06]:

In an adult shop, which was not like they are today. You know, today we've got these beautiful adult shops that sell all sorts of kinds of things, and they're these clean, lit, well, places, well lit places to buy your sex toys. And it wasn't always that way. But yes, safety is incredibly important. I want to go back because there were. There were so many things that you introduced in that very short thing. You know, as you were talking about the warm up, it just occurred to me that it's, you know, it's very akin to really good foreplay.

Ms. M [00:21:48]:

Oh, yeah.

Deborah [00:21:49]:

Which is very important to creating really good sex. And so just that idea of getting the, you know, getting the mind on board, getting the body on board, getting, you know, the, the. The hormones and the juices, you know, both the physical ones and the mental. And the mental ones going.

Ms. M [00:22:11]:

I want to be mentally juicy.

Deborah [00:22:14]:

Absolutely. Which brings me to my second thing, rather the Icy Hot. One of my favorite things to do would be, is to take either rosemary or cinnamon and put it under my. Under my arms so that when the play was happening, my, you know, the scent would be out and then just like, you know, with the Icy Hot, when they would smell it out in the other world, you know.

Ms. M [00:22:41]:

And can I tell you, like, my favorite story that has to do with connecting memories to arousal?

Deborah [00:22:47]:

Yes, please.

Ms. M [00:22:49]:

So I had a client for a number of years. I haven't seen him in a while or heard from him in a while. We would play on the webcam, and he was one of these guys that was just. Even in today's day and age, was just so scared to order an actual sex toy. And so he would use household Things. And I would lecture the hell out of him on safety and understanding that things vanish up the anus a lot faster and easier than you think. But he would buy these, like, jumbo carrots that were, like, a good 12, 16 inches long. And so I was like, okay, that's.

Ms. M [00:23:26]:

You know, if it goes up, it's at least only going up in one direction. It's not going to fold sideways. So anyways, and I would make him pierce the carrot and put a string on it, so it was, like, kind of making it safe. But anyways, that's a side note. I would have him carve things into the carrots before he put the condom on it to fuck himself in the ass while he played. And my favorite was when we carved the Backstreet Boys names into the carrot. And I made him masturbate while listening to Backstreet Boys songs for, like, months on end. He wasn't allowed to come unless he was listening to Backstreet Boy songs.

Deborah [00:24:07]:

Oh, that's so good.

Ms. M [00:24:09]:

Or playing with carrots that had their names carved into it. Because knowing full well the next time he went to a grocery store and they played a Backstreet Boy song, he was gonna pop a boner. Was. No way he could avoid it, because, you know, Pavlov's dog, his brain now equated sexual gratification with the Backstreet voice singing and carrots.

Deborah [00:24:35]:

Oh, my God, that is so good. Well, you know, it's funny hearing you say that, because it's like, you know, back in the day when my partner and I first got together, this is completely dating us, but. Oh, well, the. You know, he. He had, like, two CDs that got played during. During, you know, during sex. And literally, the more that we played and. And when I would hear that music out in the world, it would.

Deborah [00:25:10]:

It would totally. I could feel myself starting to get turned on. But I think, you know, that's part of the thing that I love about BDSM and kink is there's a. There a ritual aspect to it. And the more that we use ritual, you know, the more that there is that association, there's that turn on. And so, you know, we can go, you know, to more expanded states. You know, one of the things that. That's really popular down here right now is sort of this idea of, like, kink and spirituality.

Deborah [00:25:47]:

And it's. It's just. It's kind of amusing because it's as if it was just discovered.

Ms. M [00:25:52]:

I know. Yeah. No, I've been saying that for years. I was just like. Because as someone like in, in my bio you read, I do card readings. Like, I'm very much a witchy person and I very much am an energetic being. And that's like, I've had a lot of fun bringing that and being a pro dom and combining them, knowing full well that they're, you know, work together. Like you say, this isn't a new idea, but this idea I've said for years and everyone I talked to that's been in, in the kink scene for years says the same thing.

Ms. M [00:26:27]:

It's like, no, you have to have at least, whether you name it or not, that you're an energetic person if you've been in this world for long enough. Because whether you started that way or whether it developed through kink, or whether kink developed through that, like, however it happened, you have to have an awareness of the energy of other people. Like you say spirituality, I'll say energetic. Same difference. To have that kind of connection in a scene where you have a really intense scene, whether it's a one off or whether it's like built over many, many years. Yeah. So I love that the new generation thinks they've discovered something yet again. They're really good at that.

Deborah [00:27:12]:

So this kind of brings me back to you were starting to talk a little bit about, you know, when you step into the dom role or position, that it has a lot of responsibility. And can you talk a little bit about some of the things that, that you're responsible for in that role?

Ms. M [00:27:33]:

Absolutely. So I've done a lot of teaching over the years and one of the most fun groups that I've taught are local escorts and sex workers who want to add kink or fetish play into their regular sessions. And so I've taught a lot of the local folks the importance of that. And the biggest part, I would say, is the understanding for the need for aftercare, especially for someone that's in a role where it's like, okay, they've booked an hour of my time. And that was one of the things I had to really kind of hammer home in this, in these classes was, yeah, you can book for an hour, but depending on what kind of play you're doing and how intense it is, you can't, morally, ethically, whatever, kick that person out at the hour point if they're still floating in subspace or they're still, you know, kind of loopy. So that's part of what I teach with safety. And so for me, that taking that responsibility for your physical, mental and Emotional safety while we're in session and immediately after and even a little bit in the future after, depending on the situation. Granted, a lot of these people were not offering intense crack and ball torture and really intense impact play that.

Ms. M [00:28:56]:

Because the more intense the play, the higher somebody's going to get. And I'll explain that in a second. And the longer it potentially will take them to come back to being, like, fully functioning human. And so you have to be aware of that, that it can be a lot of fun to take somebody to, like, super subspace where they're just floating and they're like, lost in their body and this is the greatest thing they've ever felt. But you have to be aware that that might mean sitting with them on the couch for two hours after feeding them and doing their aftercare, which I will also get into, like, to make sure that they come back. Because when those hormones flush and you go into what we call subspace, DOM space is also a thing. It's just not as commonly talked about and it's, for many people, not as intense. So this subspace with these hormones and this adrenaline and endorphin and all this hormones flooding your body, you're literally feeling high.

Ms. M [00:30:01]:

It's quite the same as many drugs that are taken. It hits the same receptors in your brain. Physiologically, it's the same thing happening. And so like a bartender who legally can be considered responsible if somebody drinks too much in a bar and then leaves and does something stupid because they had part of that person getting to that space. I view it that way as a dom or as a top in a situation, I'm responsible for that person until they've come back to a place where they can safely drive safely, walk, you know, go out and have a. A fluid conversation with somebody on the street type situation. So, yeah, that, that awareness of the. The higher you take someone, the longer it can take them to come back down.

Ms. M [00:30:53]:

And so to me, being a dom, you're owning that responsibility. Which is why I learned if I play with someone new or I play in a public space or I play in, like a dungeon type evening that I'm at, I do very minimal play with anybody. I. I won't, you know, do in any kind of real intense where those hormones are going to flare so high, because in that space and with somebody that I potentially don't know as well, I straight up don't want to spend. If I've got five hours at a dungeon and I've spent an hour playing, I don't want to have to spend two hours taking care of somebody and I will because that's my responsibility. But I don't want to. So I'll only take them, you know, a little bit. Knowing that then sitting with them and having them eat natural sugar and protein and have water and be comfortable and that's all the things for the aftercare.

Ms. M [00:31:47]:

It's very much equated to giving blood. If anyone's ever donated blood, it's the same idea. There's always a soup with protein in it. There's always, you know, cakes and cookies and fruit and warm beverages. And you're giving your body all the things it needs to kind of come back based on the depletion it's going to feel. Because when those hormones flare high and then they rush out of the body, people can often have what they then call a sub drop, which is where you feel depleted, you feel sad, you feel exhausted. Quite often people feel shame, especially if there's been any sort of taboo or what wouldn't be considered acceptable in their day to day life aspects. Shame part is a huge part of not doing proper aftercare.

Ms. M [00:32:37]:

I had a client on Cam who would buy these elaborate vinyl outfits, like thigh high boots, custom made teddies, all this kind of like he'd spend like two grand on an outfit we would play. And he didn't believe in aftercare. No matter how much I tried to tell him he would just. And that's part of the problem with doing it on camp. So we weren't doing anything super intense physically, but he was so emotionally involved that then he would go and the next day he would throw everything out and then he'd vanish for six months until the desire and the need to play again came up. And then he'd come back and he, I, after a couple times I told him, I can't play with you anymore because I don't want to be part of your shame spiral and you're not willing to do the things that, that I am deeming necessary in order to play with me. And so he, he's been gone for a number of years and I have no idea what he's doing. But for me that became kind of a line.

Ms. M [00:33:40]:

I'm like, I don't want to be responsible for somebody who feels really terrible about themselves.

Deborah [00:33:48]:

So speaking of shame.

Ms. M [00:33:51]:

Yes.

Deborah [00:33:52]:

I mean, I think, you know, shame is a huge part of, you know, what shuts us down, whether it's in our personal lives, our professional lives, our sex lives. And I'm curious like how like if this person was Willing to do some version of aftercare, like what, how do you unwind shame? Or how do you sort of like, I don't know what you want to say, Dissipate it, put it in a box, burn it, like what, what it, what are some of the, the ways in which you found to, you know, to dismantle or disassemble shame?

Ms. M [00:34:36]:

I'm going to answer in two parts. One being that quite often by giving your body the proper aftercare, both in being comforted, cared for, plus the like protein, sugar water type situation, that actually negates the shame coming up as intensely or at all for many people. Because a lot of times shame involved in this situation comes from being depleted. And it's like trying to make major life decisions. What's the saying? Halt, hungry, angry, I don't remember what the L is. Or tired. So you're never supposed to make major life decisions when you're feeling any of those things. So if you've ever had a night where you sleep really terrible on the next day, you think everyone's mad at you and nothing is quite the same.

Ms. M [00:35:26]:

But then after a good night's sleep, you're like, what was I even going on about? Like, clearly everything's fine. So it's that same idea anytime you're in a depleted state, whether it's low blood. Oh, that's it, low blood sugar, low blood sugar, tired, angry, any of those, they take away from your brain's ability to work properly. And so if you do the aftercare stuff, the shame quite often doesn't even come up. And I'm so surprised when I talk to other people who have been in this lifestyle or professionals for so many years and they're like, you know, I never really put together that that was a thing because. And then they come back and they're like, oh my God, I did this with my people. And it's, it's completely different. And I'm like, yeah, because it's, it's that depletion.

Ms. M [00:36:09]:

If they say, come to me before a session and have shame or are embarrassed, then that's where like in my bio I talk about, I guarantee you it turns someone else on because it doesn't matter how. I won't even say strange or weird because I like to look at them as unique, like male pregnancy fantasies. You know, I had a guy, he was in and out of my camera for six hours one day, popping in and out, not really speaking. And finally I just said, dude, you keep coming back for a reason. Like, what are you Here for. He says, oh, I like this thing, but I think it's so weird, and I'm so embarrassed. And I was like, try me. I was like, I did one of those last week.

Ms. M [00:36:50]:

And just knowing that he wasn't the only person on the planet that was turned on by this thing. How many people went out and had sex with apple pies in the early 2000s after American Pie came out? Like, people find new things that they're turned on by because they're exposed to unique things. And so even finding out that somebody else is turned on by it can quite often negate so much of the shame.

Deborah [00:37:17]:

Yeah. You know, and hearing you say that, one of the things that. That it makes me think about is when I work with couples around kink and bdsm, especially if it is the male partner who is in the dom role, one of the things that he needs to hear is that he's still a good man. And that, like the play, you know, especially if it's cons, you know, what we socially consider violence, you know, violent or, you know, misogynistic or any of those things. Like, to be able to know that, like, that's not who I am all the time. That's who I stepped into for this scene. The kind of a de rolling process is often helpful.

Ms. M [00:38:07]:

Absolutely. Absolutely. I've had clients that want really intense small penis humiliation. And I'd won. And I would do the show with him and he'd have his orgasm, and then immediately, my voice, my pitch, I would change everything the second his orgasm was done. And from one minute, yelling at him and degrading him horribly to being like, that was awesome, sweetie, I hope you have a really great rest of the day. I can't wait till I see you next time. So that he knew that that was like, the things that I said in that space were in that space.

Ms. M [00:38:41]:

That's not necessarily me as a person that was in that space. And so. Absolutely, I agree. Kind of coming out of it and being able to have that shift, the orgasm happens. People don't want to hear the same things they do pre orgasm.

Deborah [00:38:56]:

That's very true. And, you know, I think there's. It's. It's like there are things that you want to hear in that space.

Ms. M [00:39:03]:

Face. Yeah.

Deborah [00:39:05]:

And sometimes. So, like, I know for. For instance, when I work with. With clients, especially around, you know, if there. If there's verbal play in it, it's like, I really want to know what are the words. Right. Because there's a big difference between being my Good boy and being my bad boy. You know, there's a really big difference between like, you know, am I coming? Am I, am I, am I, you know, have, do we have impact play because it turns me on or is it because you're being, you know, it's the consequences of your actions or that you're being punished? And it's like, it's, it's, it's so much fun when you can get that geeky about stuff.

Ms. M [00:39:49]:

Exactly. One of my favorite things to say to clients. And this is why I rarely take on people who self identify as Bratty says, because I always tell them I'm like, punishments aren't what you want them to be. You're going to come in and act like a brat because you want me to hit you. I'm not going to hit you because if I'm punishing you, it's not going to be what you want. More than likely it's going to be me sitting cross legged and staring at you intensely in silence. Because that is probably the worst thing you can possibly experience and therefore that's an actual punishment. So yeah, knowing that difference between is it an actual punishment or is it part of the situation?

Deborah [00:40:33]:

Yeah. And you know, I think one of the misconceptions that we have about Kink and BDSM is that it has to be sexual. And I'm curious if you could talk a little bit about that.

Ms. M [00:40:48]:

Yeah, I have this conversation all the time and it's why I tell people who want to join FetLife I'm like, oh, I wish you could experience FetLife like 20 years ago. Because that was a whole different world because FetLife of 20 years ago. And for people who don't know, FetLife is like a personal site or like a social media type site. But for Kink and BDSM back then it was about what I call pure. And I'm a purist at heart. To me, there's no assumption of orgasm in any type of kink or BDSM play. The assumption should not be there. If that's part of the negotiations and part of the plans for the scene, then yes.

Ms. M [00:41:29]:

But to me, kink and fetish play isn't just foreplay that leads to then sex of any type or any kind of release. It absolutely can be. I'm not a purist in the sense that I don't think it has a place. I'm not someone who thinks like Dom should never be naked or any of that. People should do whatever the hell works for them. But I hate that nowadays kink is viewed as one type of foreplay that ultimately ends up in penis and vagina intercourse. Because that's, that's just not my mind. People ask me all the time if I get turned on when I do a scene like I do, but not in the way you think.

Ms. M [00:42:14]:

My vagina does not get wet, but my brain gets lit up and I have. I call it my dom soul. And it lives like right here just off the edge of my heart. And my little dom soul gets filled and it gets really excited and really happy. But that's not what you mean when you ask me, do you get turned on? But that's also a good education point, that there's a variety of ways to get turned on. And that's whole I want my brain to be juicy kind of idea. And so, yeah, like I said, I'm a little old school in that. To me, kink is a thing.

Ms. M [00:42:49]:

Sexual intercourse is a thing. They can cross over, but they do not automate dramatically cross over. And so that's why when I talk about FetLife of now, where there's as many dick pic profiles on FetLife as there is anywhere else, and I'm just like, ugh. So you're here because you want someone to dom you, which basically you just are lazy in bed and you want a woman to be in charge of sex so that, you know, which is a whole other rant. But yeah, they're. They have a place together, but they shouldn't be assumed to be together. Is. Is how I feel.

Ms. M [00:43:26]:

And that's becoming less and less of current beliefs.

Deborah [00:43:31]:

Yeah. You know, it's interesting hearing you say that. My, yeah, my, my, my early, early days was really funny because I, I did a lot of. Of kink BDSM on the east coast and it's. On the east coast is much more, or I should say was much more protocol oriented, was much more rules based, if you will, and, you know, you didn't have sex in the dungeon. That just like, did not happen. Whereas on the west coast, you know, we're busy being all these, you know, much more sensual, much more fluid, and much more sexual around it. And you know, again, it's.

Deborah [00:44:16]:

It's too two. Two different games that we're playing here. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I wanted to ask you because you, you mentioned the different. Like you, you mentioned that you work in on cam a lot. And I'm curious, like, you know, for those that are listening, how, how does that work? You know, because one of the things that I've heard, you know, since the pandemic and since we've been online a lot more is that, you know all of the things that you can't do without being in person. And so I'm going to invite you to bust that myth.

Ms. M [00:44:54]:

Yes. So it takes a lot of creativity, which I love. The creative aspects of any kind of play, both on my part and on the subs part. I don't want to do the same scene with the same client, whether it's in person or through cam, over and over and over again. I get bored. I want new, I want fun. I want different ways of doing things. So when I tell you I do 90 minutes, super intense cock and ball torture shows on cam without ever touching somebody, people are like, but what? Because it's a completely different game.

Ms. M [00:45:34]:

Not that it's not serious, but it's one thing for a client to lay back and let somebody else do things to them. It's a totally different game to convince somebody to do things to themselves because their brain tries to stop them from doing things. When I tell somebody, you need to punch yourself in the testicles five times as hard as you can. And I'm laughing because I'm watching on cam because they're going, going and their body is like their brain is physically stopping them. Like they have to almost like there's an override sensation. So you have to get creative with how you do it. And it's a lot of. But you want to please me, right? Not in a manipulative, I'm forcing them to do things way because they know they want to do it.

Ms. M [00:46:25]:

But they need to convince themselves. They need to convince that auto safety part in the brain that is there solely to stop us from hurting ourselves. And you have to train someone's brain how to override it, which is again why I take the safety so seriously. Because it goes hand in hand. When you're convincing someone to do something that they want to do, you're taking responsibility for what that can look like and how their body and brain can react to that. So that's one thing, like doing any kind of impact play or any kind of pain implementation. There's a lot more mental in getting them to be able to do it to themselves. When it comes to chastity.

Ms. M [00:47:11]:

I mean, yeah, there's like, like those cages you can lock your cell phone in and put a code in. And there's some. There's long distance controlled chastity cages. Except when that one first came out, the site got hacked and guys Got locked in and blackmailed to get released from their cages. Like, so anytime you take that's hot the completely wrong, wrong way, like, exactly. So the tech can make things convenient and fun. But I've watched enough of them come out over the years to be like, I also know how bad they can go. So it's creative things like putting the key in a plastic water bottle and throwing at the bottom of your deep freeze because you know that you're not getting, like, instant out.

Ms. M [00:47:54]:

You know, the fastest you're gonna get out is the time it takes for you to run it under hot water. But then again, that mental play comes in as well. That kind of helping them take over their own mind.

Deborah [00:48:09]:

It's.

Ms. M [00:48:09]:

It's. I. I'm wary to say it because it sounds like I'm this manipulative human when I say it out loud. So I just want to keep reminding people there's safety and responsibility that goes with it. Manipulation isn't always for bad. However, that's kind of what it takes is there's. There's a lot more mental game in doing stuff online than in person. Having done both many, many times.

Ms. M [00:48:36]:

So, yeah, the creativity and the, you know, tasking a sub with, okay, well, you know, you love when we do this sensation, you go do research, you go look online and see how other people are doing this, and you present to me with some ideas, and I'll tell you which ones I want to do do. So it's not always on one or the other to be coming up with ways to keep it fresh. I like finding that balance. I have a sub I've been doing sessions with for almost 10 years online, and we've done some in person, and we keep a. A task list. And there's easy, medium, and hard. There's rewards and consequences. And each year we sit down and we look through what was completed off the list, what did work, what didn't work, what we want to leave or put on for next year.

Ms. M [00:49:18]:

So there's always creative ideas in play.

Deborah [00:49:21]:

And just going with. With what you're just saying. And is that the accountability piece? Because you'd mentioned. I mentioned in your bio that you do accountability work. So is. Is that the way you work with accountability or is that. Or are there many different ways?

Ms. M [00:49:38]:

Well, there's. Yes, there's many different ways because I also have, like, accountability clients like, that go with, like, a life coaching aspect that has nothing to do with kink or online or bdsm. And that's just, you know, keeping people on track and living their best lives and that kind of stuff in like a more traditional role. But then that's where I've been able to take, like I talked about bringing in my energetic and witchiness into bdsm and then I also bring in the life coaching aspect. And it's part of why I have such long term clients like, like online clients that have been seeing me regularly for almost a decade. That's pretty intense. And part of that is, is that there's a variety of ways to make it benefit more than just their boners is kind of the point. You know, I have this client that I do these lists with with the accountability with the cock and ball torture.

Ms. M [00:50:33]:

He also then, you know, had a bunch of health problems. And so then it was adding an accountability for drinking enough water to avoid kidney stones and taking medication and cutting out certain types of food and adding exercise and committing to play the piano. Like it's, it's all different aspects of life that are like, well, we already have this situation, this relationship, this trust where I can come to you and I know you're going to hold me accountable for this thing, so maybe you can also do this thing. And so then, you know, there's maybe a monthly fee and then there's like a weekly check in and all this kind of stuff. And so that's where I've linked all the parts and all my different businesses kind of together in a really fun and unique way.

Deborah [00:51:19]:

Oh my goodness.

Ms. M [00:51:20]:

Yes.

Deborah [00:51:21]:

I can't believe how quickly the time has gone.

Ms. M [00:51:23]:

I know.

Deborah [00:51:24]:

So in a moment, I'm gonna invite you to just kind of think back about all of our conversations, see if we missed anything and if somebody is listening, you know, and wanted to, like, what is, what do you want them to walk away with? And as you're pondering that, I'm going to let people know how they can support the Better Sex Podcast. Because, you know, sex is really complicated issue and it can make or break a relationship. And unfortunately, most of us don't grow up in an environment where talking about sex is welcome. And that's why I have the Relationship Lab. It is an online community where you can on, it's an online Facebook community where you can come on, hear all about what is happening on the Better Sex podcast. You can ask questions, you can make suggestions about who I should talk to. And so I invite you to go ahead and check it out. It is, there's a link in the show.

Deborah [00:52:27]:

Notes, Notes. And because, you know, a podcast, even as good as this one, is just not Enough. And life is too short for bad sex. So come and join the conversation in the relationship lab. All right.

Ms. M [00:52:43]:

I would say the one other thing that we had talked about was how to be a good submissive. So I think I'll touch on that a little bit.

Deborah [00:52:52]:

Yes, please.

Ms. M [00:52:53]:

What is potentially going to be a very confusing and not actually interesting answering the question kind of way, because there is no one way to be a good submissive. Every top or dom. And I use those words quite interchangeably and maybe I'll. I'll touch on that real quick. So like being a top or a bottom means that's the role you're playing in that situation. Being a dom or sub, that's a little bit more about who you are on the inside. And so in these examples, I tend to use DOM top as a slash and bottom sub as a slash because I don't know what people's situations are specifically. So since every DOM and top is different with what they expect, there's no one way to be a good submissive.

Ms. M [00:53:42]:

Overall. General rules would be don't vomit your fetishes all over somebody's inbox and or face without having had a conversation or a hello or a greeting or a consent for those conversations first. I would say that's probably the biggest ones because the number of people that I get on, say, fetlife less so in person because generally the, the kinky munches that I'm going through, the dungeons. People have been to things and they understand how to be a general, decent human being. And so I get it more online. But the number of times people just show up in my inbox that I've never spoken to, sometimes they say hello in the subject line, sometimes they don't and literally word vomit all of their deepest, darkest desires in very extreme details sometimes. And I just have to tear them a new one. In response about why I didn't consent to hearing these details.

Ms. M [00:54:55]:

I didn't agree to having this conversation. Why on earth would I want to give of my time, energy and skill set to somebody who doesn't understand how to even speak to another human, let alone in a space like this? So that can be the downside to when, like my bio says, I'm extremely open minded. Yes, I'm extremely open minded to consensual conversations and experiences. That doesn't mean I want to hear about your snuff fantasies, because that happens. And so I get a lot of the extremes and unfortunately it's from people who I haven't consented to hearing it. From. And so the idea of consent, even in conversation and in sharing the details of what you want would make you a really good sub. So you know, approaching someone and saying, hey, I read your bio.

Ms. M [00:55:45]:

So reading the bio, doing any kind of research, if you're, if that's available, say you're approaching a professional, you know, read their website, read what information you have to submit. My website flat out says above my contact me form, you have one chance to make a first impression. You better make the best of that because you can't come back from it. And if you make a bad first impression, I will never see you, even if you backpedal and try to make up for it, because I will never get that taste out of my mouth. So reading the information you have access to, asking if you can talk to them about your interests and if it's, it joins up with their interests, whether it's lifestyle or professional. Don't treat a DOM as a fetish dispenser. I do not simply exist so that your fantasies can be fulfilled. I'm a professional.

Ms. M [00:56:50]:

I'm a literal master at a lot of the things that I do. Does that mean I want to just do them for fun all the time? Which is why for an example on Fat Life, my profile flat out says I very rarely take on pro bono free subs unless they have something really special to offer. Because generally people are coming and being like, oh my God, she knows what she's doing. This could be the best experience of my life. It's like when I get 22 year olds that hit on me on dating sometimes sites because older women know what they're doing and they want to have the best sexual experience of their life. That's cool, dude. What does that offer me? Because being young, it's just straight up not enough. And so being willing to let me do anything I want to you in a kinky way is also not enough.

Ms. M [00:57:41]:

And it makes you sound lazy. So that would be my next point. Anyone who approaches me and says they'll do anything I want, they don't have limits, they're here for everything. Is a huge red flag because you haven't researched to actually learn what you like and what you don't like, even if you don't know what your limits are yet you have them. And so even that kind of wording of well, I'm not sure I'm new to this, I would like to find out versus I don't have any. That's a completely different. The intent in those is, is so different. So it reads as very lazy and very dangerous to have somebody approach and say they're willing to do anything and everything.

Ms. M [00:58:26]:

Approach by saying, I'm new to this, I don't know what I like. I'm curious about a lot of different things. I would love to have a chance to chat with you about what you enjoy and what you would be willing to explore with me. And on a side note, I mean, don't come to a professional on their website and try to get stuff for free. And that doesn't just talk about this. That's any profession in the world. We all see those posts on social media where somebody wants to offer a professional photographer lunch at the wedding in exchange for 4,000 pictures, fully edited and this and that. Like that approach of if you approach a professional in anywhere in life, life, you're going to pay what they charge.

Ms. M [00:59:10]:

Not. So don't expect a professional to give away their skills for free if they haven't offered them.

Deborah [00:59:16]:

Thank you for that. All right.

Ms. M [00:59:20]:

I think that's probably a pretty good list on how to be a good sub. That's a lot of different things to kind of think about. And yeah, that first approach makes all the difference.

Deborah [00:59:30]:

Yeah. Thank you for, for. That was a great list of things to think about and ways to approach. And I mean, my favorite, when somebody says, I'll give you anything, it's like, where's your credit card?

Ms. M [00:59:47]:

I've said it so many times. I'm like, hey, great, I need access to your bank account. And then I need you to not talk to me for 40 hours. Well, that's not what I want. I know. And yet you said anything. Actually, on the cam site, when they used to say anything, I changed it over the years. At one point it was, okay, go get a hammer, three nails, and a piece of wood, and we'll see how many you can get through your testing before you cry.

Ms. M [01:00:10]:

And then after that, because, I mean, I. You have to go the extreme to get people to realize when they say silly things. And the other one was, okay, shove a cactus up your ass and ride a bicycle while hanging from a chandelier. And I want to watch. They're like, well, that's stupid. That's not what I want. But you said anything.

Deborah [01:00:27]:

Well, you know, I, I way, way, way, way back in the day when I was sort of new at this whole business, you know, and somebody asked me if I had, you know, what my bound, what my limits were, and I really didn't know. And I didn't know enough to know that I didn't know, and I didn't know enough to know that I didn't know. And I probably shouldn't say, you know, I don't know, or, you know, try me, or something along those lines. And he was like, oh, great, we're gonna start with Fireplay. And I was like, like, who the.

Ms. M [01:01:01]:

What, you want to light me on fire? What are you gonna light me on fire? Is this even a thing?

Deborah [01:01:07]:

Exactly. You know, And I mean, he. He was. And then he kind of backed up and said, look, yeah, no. And that's actually one of the things that I like to really talk about when I'm especially working with couples, which is more my venue with. With Kink and. And BDSM at this point, is that, like, it's not about what you want to not do, it's about what you do want to do. And so I suggest, you know, what are the three things that you want to do that you want me to do? It's like, you know, a spanking, a tickling, you know, blindfolding, whatever it is, but just having those things versus trying to keep things out, negotiating in.

Deborah [01:01:50]:

So, Ms. Sultry, Ms. E, you are amazing. Thank you so much for joining me. And where can people find you everywhere?

Ms. M [01:02:02]:

I use the name sultry Ms. M on everything. I have a website. I've got X, Twitter, whatever the hell it's called these days, Instagram, all the sites that I sell video content through. I do sell a lot of kinky fetish content through different things, like many vids. And I want clips and clips for sale and all that kind of stuff. And so that's where. But my website, I would say sultrymissm.com and M is EM would have the.

Ms. M [01:02:31]:

It's the base for everything.

Deborah [01:02:33]:

Great. Thank you so much. So please follow her like her, buy her clips. She's amazing. I am so excited. And if you know anybody who this conversation would support in being a better sub, in being a better dom and understanding Kink and bdsm, please share it. Please, like, subscribe and comment where you get your podcasts. So excited that you're here.

Deborah [01:03:09]:

Thank you so much and bye for now.