Understanding Sexual Needs through Honesty and Authenticity with Shana James
Are you having sex with your partner and not feeling like you have a clear understanding of their sexual needs? Are you unsure of how to ask questions, make requests, or navigate through conversations about sexuality? If so, it may be time to look toward honest and authentic sex.
Today on The Better Sex Podcast, we have Shana James, who has coached more than a thousand men and women to have passionate connections and fulfilling relationships. Whether you're single and looking to date, want a long-term relationship, or your relationship isn't satisfying, Shana quickly pinpoints the cause in her new book: Honest Sex: A Passionate Path to Deepen Intimacy and Keep Your Relationship Alive
She will talk about how she believes that it is important, to be honest with oneself and others in order to create closer connections, the importance of being able to have conversations about sex in a way that is comfortable for both parties, and shares her experience working with clients who want more foreplay or longer experiences.
Tune in now and learn more about how, to be honest with your partner during this vulnerable time and still remain in sync with your long-term goals!
Highlights:
(03:05 ) Being committed to authenticity
(05:48) The Impact of Presence
(07:02) Breaking Down the Meaning of Honest and Sex
(16:38) What is Sex mean to Shana?
(19:21) The Making of Honest Sex
(24:31) How to Ask for What You Want Sexually
(31:25) Steps Toward Being Honest and Open in Sexuality
(34:12 ) The Importance of Self-Pleasure in a Relationship
(37:11) How to Talk to Your Kids About Sex
(41:48) Understanding the word ‘Intimacy’
(50:46) Things That Both Males & Females Should Be Aware of if They Are Interested in Relationships
(54:31) Co-creating More of What You Want
Links:
Website: shanajamescoaching.com
LinkedIn: Shana James
Facebook: Shana James
Book: Honest Sex: A Passionate Path to Deepen Connection and Keep Passionate Relationships Alive.
Deborah’s Links:
Send your sex and relationship questions to DeborahTantraKat@Gmail.com
For a free Truth and Clarity Session Appointments 3 — Deborah Kat Coaching
Website: https://www.deborahkat.com/
Email: deborahtantrakat@gmail.com
Facebook: Events Near Me | Facebook
Twitter: Deborah Kat (@TantraKat) / Twitter
In our commitment accessibility, help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. The transcription is far from perfect, and in some cases quite amusing. As we grow edited transcripts are on the list in the meantime please enjoy.
Unknown Speaker
No, I think I'm good. Okay
Unknown Speaker
Welcome, everybody. Welcome to the better sex podcast, the place to be if you want better sex and more meaningful relationships. My name is Deborah Kat and I am delighted to have unfiltered conversations with people who work on sex and relationships. I truly believe that a sexy world is a better world. And if you would like to do your part to create a better world, please like, subscribe, and comment wherever it is you get your podcasts.
Unknown Speaker
Today, I am delighted to have Shana James. As my guest, Shana has coached more than 1000 men and women to have passionate connections and fulfilling relationships. And whether you're single and looking to date. Want a long-term relationship, or your relationship isn't satisfying. Shana quickly pinpoints the cause. In her new book on sex, a passionate path to deepen the connection and keep passionate relationships alive. She jumps in and shares her secrets. Shana doesn't teach gains or pickup lines. She works specifically with each man in the place. He holds himself back or feels stuck with an open heart and incredible clarity. Shana will get you in a way that allows you to decisively and effort we step into the connections and relationships you want. Seamus is a true ally for men. She draws on a decade of experience as a coach, workshop leader, yoga, Medic, yoga and meditation and a master's degree in psychology to help you have more of what you want more of what is important to you. So I am particularly excited to have Shana here with me. I have known of her and I've known her.
Unknown Speaker
For about a decade, we met back when you were working in the authentic world
Unknown Speaker
breaks down into the authentic man project and the authentic women's experience.
Unknown Speaker
Both of those. Yeah. And I'm gonna ask you to tell more about like, what it means to be authentic. But first, I just, I want to hear your story. Like how did you get here? Thank you, I feel delighted to be here, we clearly have some awesome overlaps. And yeah, I don't know, in my bio, I think it's at a decade, but it's basically been two decades now, which is aging myself.
Unknown Speaker
So if I go back to that point, I was part of an intentional community in San Francisco. And we were committed to being honest with each other and being authentic. And we were making messes with each other, but we committed to staying and cleaning them up. We were like, Alright, we're gonna work with jealousy and attraction, and
Unknown Speaker
you know, just feeling upset with each other, and we were gonna be real about it. And we did, it was a beautiful experience in my life. And it it like rewrote some of my stories around. You know, people just aren't getting it. People aren't getting me like nobody sees me. So it's really beautiful. And then two of the men created this course called the authentic man program where I got to be on a team of women to give honest and loving feedback to men. And it radically changed my life and broke my heart open in a way that I had never experienced and helped me really see behind the curtain of what's going on for men and the struggles that they faced. And I know it felt like a calling like after that I created the authentic women experience with my co-founder Alexis Shepard, and
Unknown Speaker
it was beautiful work. And we did that for a really long time. And I always felt like oh, I want women to have this. But my calling felt like getting to you know work with men and love men and support men and be honest about the things that they you know, don't understand why like, why is my why is this spark fading? Why are women not saying yes to me? Why am I not satisfied? Right? So, yeah, that was that was where it started. I'm happy to answer any deeper questions in there.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, having had the experience, also of being a reflector in for the, for the authentic man project,
Unknown Speaker
just really, you know, having that experience of, of sitting with a man feeling into my body, noticing what's true and write that feedback. And powerful. Yeah, and I really appreciate
Unknown Speaker
the difference of being able to give that reflection from the feminine perspective from the like, Hmm, are you part of what part of my list Do you satisfy? If I have one? You know, is it actually like to be in your presence? Yeah, I love that. Right? Like, what is it like to be in your presence? What's the impact that you're having on me, therefore, I'm not telling you who to be, I'm not telling you what the right way is. But I'm just telling you, like, Hey, if you're having an experience, where it's not going well, you know, take this into consideration, the impact you're having in this moment is likely something that happens in other moments, too. So really, again, letting men behind the curtain for our reality, with love and with a foundation of wanting them to have what they want, as opposed to, you know, when you go on a date, someone's not invested in you necessarily having what you want. Or if you're in a relationship, the stakes are so much higher, and it feels scary for him to have what he wants if I'm not gonna get what I want, you know. So, yeah, it feels like a really beautiful, beautiful process. So I'm, I'm curious about the way that you're using so the title of your book,
Unknown Speaker
honest sex?
Unknown Speaker
Because I'm 70 Questions like, first of all, there's sort of like, What do you mean by honest, in this? And then what do you mean by sex in this? Yeah. Okay, so we start with the honest, what I discovered growing up in my family, was that there was a kind of honesty that was pretty destructive and painful. The say it like it is, you know, I'm gonna tell you how you are, I'm gonna blame shame attack. And like that is, I mean, you could argue that's not honest, in a way. It's like, well, I'm telling you how I feel I'm telling you what I think so I'm being honest, right? My
Unknown Speaker
process of writing the book was to help people discover what kind of honesty is actually effective for creating intimacy. And part of what I found was that we have to mature our honesty. And in order to do that, we have to have a sense of where is my honesty coming from? Is it coming from a surface layer of complaints and frustrations and irritations and I know that you know, I'm right in someone else's wrong. Or, on a deeper level, I think it comes from a vulnerability and a sense of, hey, this is painful for me, or I'm not enjoying this, or something's going on here that isn't working for me. It's not a character judgment on another person. It's, you know, revealing what's happening for me. I think part of that can be really helpful. I have a chapter in the book that's called, you're not who you think you are, and neither is your partner. Because,
Unknown Speaker
you know, there's a lot of research these days in the psychological and spiritual realms where we realize we're actually parts. Like, it seems like we are one cohesive being but we're actually made up of parts. And so one of my teachers had the analogy, I don't know if it was hers, or someone else's. I feel like I've heard it many times before. But she, you know, in recent years, she said to me, we've got many different parts of ourselves to call themselves and think of them all on a bus, right. And it's not like we're trying to kick any of them off of the bus. But we don't really want to give the keys to drive the bus to the ones who are wreaking havoc, right, or, like, I want to give the keys to the bus to the ones who have my best interest and my relationships in mind. And, you know, they're coming from a place of wanting good, not from a place of some of those younger parts of us that are jealous and that are bitter or resentful or right, just not as effective. Or loving. So, yeah, to me, that's, that's my sense of how to mature honesty to be more to create more connection and intimacy. So, what you're saying then, is we have all these different parts inside of us. And it's almost like we're choosing who gets the mic to speak. Yeah, exactly. You know, can we're not always choosing but we can choose.
Unknown Speaker
Yes, that's, that's, that's that's pretty true.
Unknown Speaker
cuz like I have a very judgmental one in me, I didn't want to admit it for a long time. I didn't even know it was there for a long time. But like, or grumpy Kurt, like in the book I talk about my curmudgeon, you know, she's kind of like grumpy and irritated and doesn't like the way people do things. And if I speak from there doesn't create a lot of love and connection in my relationship. But I also have one that's really appreciative and really, you know, loving and honoring and sees people's efforts and, you know, assumes the best about people like it goes much better when I actually speak from there. And it's not saying that the other one isn't, doesn't deserve to be heard or loved or cared for. But she doesn't get the mic as much. Got it. And so I'm curious, like, when you're talking about honesty, it sounds like there is concern, not just for me speaking my truth, yeah. But for the impact in the way it's going to land on the person you're speaking to. Very well said, Very well said.
Unknown Speaker
And I'm curious if you can speak a little bit about impact? Yeah, yeah, well, I think the impact is we, you know, we all have an effect on the people around us. And part of what I've come to see is, and I imagine you've come to see in the world of Tantra, and, you know, energetics is like, we're impacting people way more than we realize people are being affected way more than we realize. And so,
Unknown Speaker
you know, I can walk in a room, and someone, if they're really tuned in sometimes even if they're not tuned in, they're gonna have a different experience, they're gonna feel a lightness or a heaviness or a, you know, they're gonna start to have some kind of, like mirror the mirror neurons are happening. So you know, we are having an effect on each other. And this is really more about, okay, how do we be more conscious about that and recognize, like, in part, I am creating the person in front of me, it's not just that they're showing up in a vacuum. They're showing up in response to some of the ways that I am being and I've experienced that in. I was doing a women's speaking circle for a while, like practicing public speaking. And they called it fertile listening, and how beautiful it was that when we listen to someone in a way that is loving and approving, that person often starts to feel more relaxed, and then they feel freer, and then they're more you know, then they feel more powerful. Versus if we're listening from a place of judgment and just irritation and making them wrong, like people literally shut down in those moments.
Unknown Speaker
So I'm curious, like, hearing you say, that makes me kind of wonder like, So what kinds of things do you do for yourself? What kind of practices do you have personally for yourself to be able to come from that more?
Unknown Speaker
To choose who gets the mic? And you, you know, to listen, from? What was fertile listening? Yeah, yeah. Compassionate, listening, fertile listening. Yeah, I mean, one of them, I think that's been really powerful is meditation, right to cultivate the witness and the capacity to watch? Oh, instead of being so in my curmudgeon part, you know, where it's like, I'm taken over by her and she just becomes me. And I think of myself as her, I'm witnessing her, I'm able to have a little bit of space from that. So that's been a really big one.
Unknown Speaker
I think, you know, the authentic communication or just like looking for what is vulnerable about this, for me, that's a big part of the honesty in the book too, is alright, what feels vulnerable about this that I can communicate as opposed to what are my judgments and my analyses and my, my blame and accusation and all of that.
Unknown Speaker
That's been a really good one. And then the third one I'll say is just to not speak until I feel clear that what I'm going to say has a great potential to forward something beautiful something connected, right so like i
Unknown Speaker
i created this practice for myself, I don't know why this happened. But I called it riding the dragon where as I could feel the like the fire building up and when I was like, about to explode, you know, with anger. I imagined myself writing a little dragon going up my chest and then pulling back on the reins and being like, whoa, girl, shut up.
Unknown Speaker
Do not speak do not breathe fire do not say anything. And there's an example in the book where I basically said to a man, like, I'm going to close my eyes and I'm going to take some breaths until I feel clear that I'm going to say something that's not going to be destructive. And so but you know, I think that some of the roots of that being able to
Unknown Speaker
do that probably, you know, the meditation and the,
Unknown Speaker
the compassion for myself in that moment instead of being so stuck in that dynamic. Yeah, and I just want to like, highlight what you were talking about is the sensation. Yes, opening up your body. And
Unknown Speaker
you know, that's, that's a practice in and of itself to just be able to follow like, oh, there's heat and it's in my belly and my does tight, this is probably not the time to speak or, I love that. And also to like, it goes much better to say, Oh my God, my stomach is on fire than to say, Fuck you, or I hate you or you're an asshole or right? Like, it's like, Yes, can I be aware of that? And then can I speak it, then I don't even have to know I don't have to know what's wrong, or why I feel this way or all the things that are really challenging that, you know, a next step of like, what is really going on here? It's just that, like you said, that visceral sensation and being aware of that. Hmm.
Unknown Speaker
And so,
Unknown Speaker
you know, speaking of visceral sensation,
Unknown Speaker
it kind of brings us to sex. And that is, it's what's what I love about the conversations I'm having about sex these days, is that they are becoming much more nuanced and much more like, Well, what exactly is that? What is What does sex even mean to you? And so I'm curious if you wanted to speak a little bit to sex. Yeah. Yeah, sex. Me, I was just talking about a client with a client this morning, it's like sex, to me is
Unknown Speaker
the expanded version, or my kind of updated version is that rather than being goal oriented, I'm sure you have a similar. Imagine you have a similar definition.
Unknown Speaker
You know, it's pleasure-oriented, it's connection-oriented, it's like, it's play oriented, it's how do we experience all of our senses, whether it's by ourselves or with another person, and get deeper and deeper into the subtleties and the moments and the joys and the delights And the, you know, the sensations of it. And once that happens, we can breathe together and orgasm, you know, we can or we can breathe together and not orgasm, but have it feel totally delightful. And our whole body is, you know, on fire with pleasure and passion. So, I love that. Even starting to think about sex differently and expand what people have learned about sex can create, you know, a more amazing sex life rather than before, before even changes are made, right.
Unknown Speaker
And I always just like to think of it that a lot of people I see try to fix the passion in their relationship by being like, alright, well, let's have a date night or let's try some lingerie or try a new position or something. And to me, this book is really all about that the fundamental thing that keeps passion and connection alive is this kind of mature honesty, where then the channels are open, right? They're not all gunked up between each other with all the shit that we're holding about each other.
Unknown Speaker
And, and it's also where spontaneity is actually then becomes alive and possible, and every moment is new and different as opposed to some rote experience.
Unknown Speaker
I love that. And I, you know, I just can't say, lose the goal.
Unknown Speaker
And, yeah,
Unknown Speaker
like, yeah, there's the minute the goal, you know, for so many things, like, for sex for relating, for, you know, just once we shift away from like, this is what it has to look like, this is what it you know, this is where we're headed.
Unknown Speaker
We just have a lot more space. And, you know, there's more place for experimentation. So, how did you come to write the book like,
Unknown Speaker
you woke up one morning? Yes, we're in the shower.
Unknown Speaker
I guess it's funny. I mean, I don't know exactly the moment but I know that I had wanted to write a book first it was going to be more of a memoir and I wanted it to be more about
Unknown Speaker
I find it really fascinating the overlap between the authentic relating and communication, my spiritual practices, and then the world of sex and orgasmic meditation and Tantra and BDSM and all of that so to me, I was like, I don't think that books been written necessarily like that seems like such an interesting overlap or trifecta, you know, of like, where do those three things come together?
Unknown Speaker
So it became less of a memoir as a
Unknown Speaker
went along and more about, you know, some of my stories and clients stories, but also different experts and talking about honesty and, you know, defining who we are or understanding who we are. So it shifted as I was writing it, for sure. But that was the original inspiration. And I love that. I'm curious if there's like, there's a particular client or a couple, that when you think about
Unknown Speaker
honesty and mature communication and mature sex, like, is there like a story that really stands out for you? A story of a couple who's doing that who are engaging in that? Yeah, who you worked with who you were like, wow, I had no idea when we started. And then this beautiful thing unfolded or, I mean, it's so interesting, I think, or like, right, I had no idea when we started what was possible.
Unknown Speaker
Because most people who come to me, for some reason or another, don't, they're not having the sex or the relationship or the passion or the intimacy they want.
Unknown Speaker
I think part of what excites me the most is when my clients come back to me and say, Oh, my gosh, I was honest about this desire that I have, or I was honest about this thing that it wasn't working for me or I was on it's, you know, and then instead, and I said it in a way that was from that mature place, as opposed to a complaint, or as opposed to a nagging or, you know, or disappointed little kid of like, I'm never gonna get my needs met. And why are you this way? You know, so when they actually bring that recognition of like, Oh, my stomach is on fire, or, you know, I, there's something I really want, and it's vulnerable. Those clients come back and say, Oh, my God, I didn't know how connected I could be. Right? I didn't know how beautiful it could be. I didn't know how real I could be with my partner and still be loved. And, and, you know, seen and understood for it, and even more so than I ever have been. So I'm not thinking of a specific couple in the moment. But
Unknown Speaker
yeah, those are the things that that tend to happen.
Unknown Speaker
So it sounds like
Unknown Speaker
a big part of the change for people who work with you is bringing honesty forward around something that they may not have felt like they could ask for in the past, or
Unknown Speaker
felt like they could say in the past. Totally. And, you know, I'm thinking about dating and setting up that foundation, right. And I've been newly dating again, for the first time in a while, and my person I've been dating actually read my book. And we've been practicing, like, you know, he's been really willing and excited to practice being honest and saying when things feel vulnerable, or, you know, as we
Unknown Speaker
are connecting and becoming more intimate, we're doing the debrief that I have in the book. So, you know, after, yes, let's thank you for that. I it's, it's on my list of things that I wanted to ask you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the debrief is so good. Do you do that with your clients, too?
Unknown Speaker
Now that I've heard about it, now that I read about it, yes, yeah. Oh, my God, it's so fantastic. It's like, because it's so vulnerable. I mean, I talk about in the book, how you can talk about sex at any point right? before, during, and after there are conversations you can have, and at different points, different conversations will likely go better, right? Like, talking about fantasies, or things that you're really longing for, or things that you're frustrated by or not, you know, trying to put those in the form of desires. But like, all of that is often better before after a sexual experience. However, in the moment, you can often say like, Oh, could we try this or this feels good, or this doesn't feel good, right? But it can tend to be more simple. And people tend to get their feelings hurt in the middle, because we feel like our worth is connected to how good of a sexual partner we are, you know, it can just kind of spiral down quickly. Yeah, and one of the things I'm curious about is, how do you suggest that people ask for what they want, so we're in the moment, to kind of go in like, a little to the left or, right, it's not quite what I'm wanting, how do I say to my partner, do something different? Yeah. I mean, one way could be to say, hey, can we pause for a moment or? Or it could just be another way it would be more directing? Like would you be willing to or you know, making a request, I guess that's less directing or making a request. Another thing I talked about in the book is the appreciation sandwich where you say like, oh, my gosh, I'm loving that you're touching me here. And can you do that a little bit later? And then Awesome. Thank you or
Unknown Speaker
Right. So there's a sense that some people find that a little awkward and feel like it's inauthentic or disingenuous to say that you like something when you're going to ask for something to be different, but I find that I do actually like it. Like, it helps me focus on something that I appreciate and something that I'm really enjoying. And also that it's okay to ask for something to be different. So, I mean, one of the things that also helps in the moment, is to have had those contextual conversations before having sex like, hey, when we're having sex, can we make it okay? That if either one of us wants something to be different, we can say so. And we don't have to feel bad about it, you know, or if we do feel bad about it, then it's okay. But like, we're gonna say it, you know, so again, the combination of the before, during after and then the debrief after is an amazing point at which to say, and I've done this many times, like, Oh, my God, looking back, I woke up one morning after a date, and I was kind of freaking out. And I was like, What is going on? You know, it was good. The sex was pretty good. And, and I was like, but I had this feeling like I I
Unknown Speaker
Dishonored myself, right, disconnected for myself, or something I couldn't quite figure it out. When I when I actually got in there. I was like, oh, there was a moment where I suggested something or ask something. And in that moment, it was like, we disconnected. And then it became much more physical and much less emotionally connected, right? And not that that's bad. Sometimes that's fine. It's just it's not really how I like to be sensual or sexual. So I said something, and I and we went back to the moment I realized what had happened, and we both clarified for ourselves what had happened. And then we both clarified what we would have wanted to happen if it had gone the way we wanted it to go. And then the next time, you know, we had a date, it was so much easier to feel connected and intimate as opposed to like, oh shit, is that gonna happen again? Or oh, God, I, you know, I'm blaming him for what happened. So, yeah, the debrief can be a really beautiful place and less vulnerable to talk about some of those things that either you're afraid to say in the moment or you miss. And then looking back, you realize, oh, man, I totally missed that.
Unknown Speaker
You know, it kind of makes me curious, like, when you're
Unknown Speaker
I guess when you're meeting somebody when you're kind of starting the negotiation about sexuality, like, I mean, how honest Are you like house? How straightforward Are you? Are you?
Unknown Speaker
You know, do you? Do you let them know, it's like, by the way?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I'm really fucking honest. You know, I mean, I think everybody has their own level of comfort. But, yeah, I mean, what would your, by the way be?
Unknown Speaker
Oh, Mmm hmm, that's a great question. I think it would be something along the lines of, you know, I really take my pleasure, seriously. So, you know, it's something I'm gonna want to talk about, I'm gonna want to talk about it before, I'm gonna want to talk about it during I'm going to attack it, but it was
Unknown Speaker
a bit of what I seen every three weeks. I'm gonna, you know, yeah. Like, hopefully, I think that, you know,
Unknown Speaker
when I, when I talk to potential partners about my, my interests, um, you know, I think a big part, I'm actually starting to talk less about what I want to do and more about what I want to feel, Oh, I love that. You know, so it's like,
Unknown Speaker
I can want to feel a lot of different things. It's like, sometimes I want to be more connected. Sometimes I want to be more submissive. Sometimes I want more. You know, sometimes I just want to get right down to it. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker
I think it's so great. I mean, I think the more we talk about it, there's a chapter in there. That's also about like, how to talk about sex without killing your sex life, because so many of my clients come to me and they're like, I don't want to say it, because I think it'll kill and I'm like, No, I mean, yes, there are ways you can say it, that will kill your sex life. And mostly if you're shaming or blaming or coming from all this fear, and you're not really working it through before you say it. But otherwise, you're like, when I when I talked to most people who are not talking about sex? It's like, hope and pray, right? Like, I hope and pray that my sex I was gonna get better. But really, does anything get better when you don't practice or talk about it or collaborate or work toward a shared vision? No. So why would your sex life just like spontaneously get better? I mean, we're just we're not taught that.
Unknown Speaker
We're not taught hardly anything. So I think that's where we all struggle. Yeah. And I find it so I cannot get over the fact that they're asked
Unknown Speaker
Surely places in the US where they don't even have to give,
Unknown Speaker
like education or sex education, but it doesn't even have to be accurate. Like, that's crazy to me. But that's a whole nother tangent. I'm just gonna say that, you know, speaking of talking about sex, I mean, I have clients that have been married for, like, 30 years, and they're like, you know, we thought that we, we thought things were, you know, we were going to need to move on. And then we started actually talking to each other. And what I find so fascinating is, you know, especially in long term relationships, we start actually dealing with our projection of our partner. Yeah, one of my teachers talks about how like we get when we, especially when we get upset with our part
Unknown Speaker
of this whole story of who they are.
Unknown Speaker
And it's generally not a good way.
Unknown Speaker
You know, but um, what do you so as you're talking with, with your, your clients, and I know, there's, this is in the book as well, but like, what is one small step they can take towards
Unknown Speaker
being more honest, and being more open around sexuality? Yeah, I mean, I think the ones one step I would suggest is to either have a conversation about what are we each wanting, or desiring or feeling excited by next in our sex lives, or a debrief after a sexual experience, where we get to say, like, this is what I loved, and this is what I would want more of, and this is the thing that I felt, I feel vulnerable or afraid to tell you, you know, either one of those are going to set a completely new trajectory, or maybe a completely new depending on, you know, maybe your maybe things are mostly good or great. They could be phenomenal, or maybe things are, you know, physically sensually amazing, but not as emotionally connected as you want them to be right. So, yeah, it sets you on that trajectory of actually being collaborative partners, to have a shared experience that's exciting and satisfying, and deep and transcendent, and all those things as opposed to just like, that's good.
Unknown Speaker
So this is a little bit of a follow-up question. But so if you've got somebody who, they haven't spent a whole lot of time really considering their own desire.
Unknown Speaker
And they're like, Well, I'm not even sure I know what that. Yeah. How do you? How do you start that conversation? Yeah, yeah. self inquiry. But yeah, and now there's a chapter in the book too, about, you know, how honest are you with yourself? And if you don't have answers, then you're not really being that honest with yourself most most of the time, right? There are some people who are asexual and don't have any sexual desires. And there are people who really love to go along with other people's desires, and they get, you know, excited or turned on by other people's desires. That's totally okay. But, again, if you're coming from that place of like, I don't know, or I'm not sure or never really thought about it. You know, then there's a chapter in the book where I really suggest taking some time to think about, well, what would my ideal relationship look like, and what would my ideal sex life look like and, and it can take some time, it doesn't always just roll right off the tongue, or the onto the page, right, it can take some time to listen and to allow some of those kind of deeper, more, you know, physical or emotional, like sensational based wisdom to arise, right? Because our minds are the ones that tend to jump in super fast. So I think making that time and then sometimes as you start, you'll start to find, oh, I'm having these dreams or I'm, you know, starting to have these fantasies or right, you can start to pay attention to what your psyche is, is creating. Hmm. And how important do you think like a, a self-practice a self pleasure practice is
Unknown Speaker
when you're in relationship? Yeah. I think it's different for every person. I mean, I'm curious what you would say. But I think if you are if your sex life and your pleasure is bound to someone else, and you're feeling like that person determines whether I am sexually satisfied, then I think it's very important because I think we want to be sexually sovereign in a way where it's like, you know, I'm not, I'm not
Unknown Speaker
in need of that person. That's the only way I can have an amazing sexual experience. That's the only way I can feel satisfied. I think the other part that makes it important is to really know your own
Unknown Speaker
Body and know what turns you on. And so if you don't know that actually viscerally you get to discover that with your own pleasure practice. So, you know, I think it may be at times if someone really knows themselves well, and they're not as turned on by themselves, and they don't, you know, have a sense of missing anything, then sure, maybe you wouldn't have a self-pleasure practice at that point. But for other for those other reasons that I mentioned, I think it can be really important. Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, as you get to know, your own body and what it's capable of. And sometimes, you know, sometimes it's
Unknown Speaker
at, I've noticed with some of my clients, and that, like, they're actually more hesitant to be with themselves than with a partner versus having their partner do to them. Yeah. And I just find that really fascinating. Yeah, I think so many of us have been conditioned, that that's dirty, or that's weird, or that's wrong, or that's, you know, just not what you do. or so, you know, I It is fascinating to me, too, but I think it probably has its roots in how most of us were raised. I mean, most of us weren't talk didn't have a conversation about sex with our parents, from our generation, but we also really didn't have masturbation or self-pleasuring
Unknown Speaker
like, yeah, yeah. And, you know, the idea that it's sort of like, well,
Unknown Speaker
I only want to do myself if there's no one else around to do me. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. I find that, you know, so many interesting stories we have about things like that.
Unknown Speaker
I'm curious. You know, we've talked a little bit about the lack of education and lack of conversations we have with, with families, and I'm curious as a parent.
Unknown Speaker
What, what some of those conversations look like with, you know, yeah. With your child? Well, it's been interesting. And I wrote about this in the book a little bit, too. So my kid is 11. And you know, we've had some conversations. And then I am also like, finding it awkward, like, when do I have these covering? Do? How do I bring it up? And, you know, at one point, recently, we were having some kind of conversation. I don't even think it was about sex. But we were having somewhat a conversation about my relationships. When I was young, she was asking me, like, you know, who I dated? And how, and I said, you know, you can always talk to me about anything. And she was like, I don't want to and I was like, Okay, well, then we can also find someone else who you trust, you know, another adult to talk about it with, because they're going to be questions that you're going to have, and we're going to, so it's interesting, like I in the book, I talked about how my mom gave me a book when I was 16. And said, it was the Where did I come from cartoon book. And she was like, I meant to give this to you, when you were eight. I was like, great. Thanks. So would have been useful. But when my I found it, actually, when my kid was nine, and she was like, this is weird. It's like a book of naked cartoon figure, you know, like, it's really, it's, it's awkward. And so, yeah, I've been trying to not go too far. Because, you know, oftentimes parenting advice is like, answer the question, and you don't necessarily have to keep going further. But I think as they get older, it's like, answer the question, and then maybe get in there and ask them some curious questions about what do you think about this? And what do you know about this? And
Unknown Speaker
yeah, but it is awkward still, for me to figure out all right, you know, do we talk about it over dinner, and we talk about it in my car? Do we talk? Do we have a little sit-down a family meeting like with? How do we frame this? So I'm not a complete expert in that, I would say but, you know, working on it myself. You know, I'm actually relieved to hear you say that.
Unknown Speaker
Not being a parent myself, but having like, being the fun and yeah, you know, I've gotten a couple of late because I'm the safe person for somebody that was good. I love that. Yeah. Well, I got a question the other day that was like, Um, wow. So you know, that's
Unknown Speaker
so
Unknown Speaker
she was asking, you know, some questions about, about her body and about, you know, what the feelings were and I was just kind of like,
Unknown Speaker
I'm not quite prepared for this question. However, let's walk it through. You tell me what it feels like. Yeah. So yeah, it was. I think that's amazing, because, right you tell me what it feels like and you know, like, let me understand what's really happening for you. I didn't get that when I was younger. I don't know if you did.
Unknown Speaker
I you know,
Unknown Speaker
I got a, I got a little bit of this and a little bit of that. I found my mom's the joy of sex.
Unknown Speaker
Which if you haven't seen it, it's worth it. It's awesome. It's awesome. That at some point to raise 70s, body hair and everything
Unknown Speaker
that this sort of mature version of the cartoons. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so that's actually kind of where I, where I started was I found my mom's book, and I was just like, fascinated. And then, you know, there's all these different kinds of prints and stuff. But, um, and then I, my mom was a nurse. So, you know, she, she gave me the medical version of a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's, I mean, that's what I said in the book, too. I got some of those medical versions of like, this is where your fallopian tubes are. And here's what a condom looks like. And here's that a bit of condom on a banana. And, but I never got,
Unknown Speaker
you know, what is it like to be intimate with another person? And how do you communicate through your body and through your emotions? Not just with your words, and how do you take care of someone? And how do you honor them? And, you know, consent is much more in the culture now than it was then for sure. But, right. Yeah, I just wish I wish that all that had happened.
Unknown Speaker
You know, so you've been using the word intimacy. And that's often a word that is a euphemism for sex. Uh huh. And so I have an idea of what you might mean by that, but I'd love you to be more, you know, to break it down and be a little bit more specific about when, how you're using that word, intimacy. Thank you. Yeah, I think of intimacy as closeness or connection. And so right. It could be physical, it could be sexual, it could be sensual, but it's more that sense of feeling. seen and understood or like feeling someone's heart with you their care with you. Right? If I'm feeling intimately connected with a dear friend, it's like, Oh, I feel like it feel understood. I feel known I feel loved and cared for. So I think that's the way I tend to use intimacy. But yeah, I think in our general culture, it is often associated just was sex. Yeah. And I just want to say, you know, in your bio, you talk about getting someone and just like, you know, what you just described about knowing someone and seeing someone and feeling someone I'm imagining that's what you mean by when you get someone? Yeah, like, I think about it, like it, maybe it's a short for getting someone's world or really understanding that person. And so if someone says to you, I have a desire to be like you said, you know, more submissive, right? Then to get someone or to get their world might be like, Okay, tell me more about that. Like, what's, what's the motivation? Or how do you want to feel? Or why does that feel so good to you? Or what are you scared about? Like, all of those things? Rather than just I think, again, our cultural construct is like, oh, okay, so let's go try that. If someone's willing, right? If someone's not willing, then there might be like, Oh, my God, we have a mismatch, and I don't know what to do about it. And then there's
Unknown Speaker
maybe going to therapy or coaching or something. But right, you know, even if someone is supportive and wants to play along and collaborate, there's so much depth to be mined in that way, and to really understand at deeper and deeper levels. Okay, where's this coming from? And, you know, what does it mean to you? And what makes it meaningful for you, and all of those beautiful questions
Unknown Speaker
about that? So I'm curious, you know, what is what is your I am imagining it's on your book, but I am gonna say like, what are you passionate about? Where is your attention these days?
Unknown Speaker
That's a great question. fun question. I mean, it's funny, I was thinking these days, like, I've been putting so much energy into parenting and
Unknown Speaker
in recent days, looking for a home and figuring out where we're gonna live and all these like, survival fundamental things.
Unknown Speaker
And now I'm really starting. Yeah, I think I think my biggest hobby has tended to be my spiritual practice, which I don't know if you'd call it a hobby, but I think I think I would call it a hobby because it's a lot of like exploring the fundamental nature of reality and to are we actually in How do I open into these other
Unknown Speaker
dimensions or realms? I think that's probably one of my biggest passions, and then where that lines up with sex right is another one.
Unknown Speaker
passion or hobby, and then I'm kind of out there trying to determine like, what else do I want? I mean, I like being in the woods and I like hiking and I like traveling. And I like create. I used to be very creative and artistic and write poems and things when I was younger, but haven't done that in a while. So I'm in a discovery phase for sure. Huh, I love that. So I'm, I'm curious, what's it like to work with you?
Unknown Speaker
What's it like to work with me? I think a lot of people who work with me say that they feel really safe to say anything and you know anything about what they want, or what they're upset about, or what they need, or
Unknown Speaker
really just to bring the real raw truth and know that they're going to be loved and cared for. And also supported to figure out like, Okay, what do I want to do with this, right? I'm not just that sometimes it's enough to reveal something. And we can have these major deepening and openings in ourselves when we just get honest with ourselves. And often there's another person who we are in connection with that we need to bring it back to or want to bring it back to so you know, sometimes working with me, is going deep into, okay, what do you want? And what's actually true for you and what's real for you, and then unraveling some of that shame, or whatever's keeping that from happening. Sometimes I do
Unknown Speaker
what I call all
Unknown Speaker
human practice where you
Unknown Speaker
have comm.
Unknown Speaker
Station patients, are we we talk about the things that are scary to talk about. That it frees
Unknown Speaker
me Hello.
Unknown Speaker
Hi, can you hear me? I can hear you now? Yes.
Unknown Speaker
You were just saying?
Unknown Speaker
You're just talking about me to go backwards? Yeah. What did you hear? So what I heard you say was that there is I'm just gonna call it the excavation phase where you're, you're digging and you're looking and you're you're uncovering? And then there's the phase where it's like, Oh, so now I know or have a better sense than I did yesterday.
Unknown Speaker
And then I want to bring it to someone or integrate it into, into my life. Yeah. And so, yeah, and that we can practice with that. So a lot of times, I'll do practice with someone where they'll say out loud, something they haven't said, or have a conversation that they want to have. But they've been scared to say it.
Unknown Speaker
And so in doing that, it takes the pressure off. So when you go back to have that conversation in your real life, it's not the first time you've had it. And oftentimes, there's emotion or there's fear, or there are all these things that come up that get in the way of just having it be a conversation where you don't need to defend yourself or you don't get upset at the other person's response. Or you don't get so scared to say it that you don't even say it, you know, so like, there's a playing with it or getting to a place with me, where your nervous system isn't in, you know, terror mode or freakout mode.
Unknown Speaker
And then you can actually go back and feel more comfortable to have it with someone else. I think there's also people talking about working with me as like, ask him, I asked him questions, or I asked questions that kind of just, you know, expand the paradigm or kind of open their mind to something they hadn't thought of or seen before. And then from there, there's more freedom and more pleasure possible.
Unknown Speaker
I lead that.
Unknown Speaker
So how do people work with you? Are you do you have openings? Are you doing events? What would react to? What am I up to? Yeah, I mean, most people I would say work with me these days one on one, or if it's a couple, then you know, two-on-one.
Unknown Speaker
I do have a year long group program for men called effortless. Or the longer version is effortless affection, connection and sex. And so that's more of a group program where men learn the fundamentals of what makes relationship and sex effortless. How does it help you know, how is it not hard or not a struggle and not like I'm forcing this or it feels super awkward or so I love that program and I'm imagining that next year I'll probably do an honest sex course where it
Unknown Speaker
People of any gender would get to come together and really explore the content of the book and get more honest with themselves and learn to have these conversations. I think that would be fun. The honest sex. I love the idea of a book club in a narrow like a salon, the honest SEC salon, that would be fun.
Unknown Speaker
That's great title. Um,
Unknown Speaker
let's see. So we're getting towards the end of our time together. And
Unknown Speaker
that a couple questions for you. So if you were talking to somebody who identified as male, what do they need to know about those of us that identify as being female as female, right. So if you're a heterosexual relationship, then I think, from what I've seen over the years, working with 1000s of people in different genders, like, in the heterosexual dynamic, women are tending to want men to know to slow down, and to learn to attune, like to actually feel when their energy is going up, or when their energy is going down. Or when there's more pleasure when there's less pleasure, like, women tell me, they want someone to notice the subtleties and to pay attention to them and to be, you know, willing to
Unknown Speaker
either slow down or have more foreplay, or just have a longer experience where it's not goal oriented. And where men don't see that as a sacrifice, but they actually see it as, you know, a thrilling experience where we get to create more pleasure together. Beautiful. And then the other side of that is for for women who are interested in relationships with men, what, what do we need to know about men?
Unknown Speaker
I love bringing to women that every man is human and vulnerable, even if it seems like he has a facade, or he's got it all together, or he's not emotionally available, like it's actually in there. And it might take some help from someone else to get in there with him. But remember that into instead of assuming that it's not there, to really speak to that one, you know, and him and, and to speak to him with desire, versus complaint. That's something I wrote about in the book every complaint reveals a desire. And so when we bring our desires, it actually goes better than when we bring our complaints because people feel ashamed, and they feel not good enough and unworthy. And so if we can start to bring the desires, and that vulnerability, you know, or that, that sense of, hey, this is this is why this matters to me, or this is why this is vulnerable for me. It often open someone's heart if we open our heart first. Now, that's not to say right, if you don't feel safe with a partner, and someone hasn't been honoring with you or respecting you, getting vulnerable is not the first thing you want to do. But, you know, if you have a loving, caring partnership, where you know that you're both there and respecting each other, but it's a little dry, or it's not, you know, it's more friendly than it is hot. I think vulnerability tends to be a pathway toward that, that spark. Hmm, thank you. So last question.
Unknown Speaker
Or maybe second to last question.
Unknown Speaker
So I know so I've got the Kindle version of honor.
Unknown Speaker
And
Unknown Speaker
the want to say hardback, paperback, paperback, that person is that out yet? It is, and how can we get it you can go to my website, which is Shana Jas coaching.com. And Shana is Sh a n a. So if you go to Shane James coaching.com/honest-sex, you'll find all the different places that it's being sold their wonderful, thank you so much. And then the very last question is,
Unknown Speaker
so what would you like people who are listening to walk away from this conversation?
Unknown Speaker
Pondering or understanding?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it's a beautiful question. I
Unknown Speaker
think what I would like people to walk away, pondering or questioning is
Unknown Speaker
how can I co-create like, if you're wanting to be in a relationship where you're in a relationship? How can I co create more of what I want? How can I come from a place of
Unknown Speaker
I'm gonna say love rather than fear. And what I mean
Unknown Speaker
My that is like, How can I come from a place of care and desire and like, this is good, right? All of the things that I'm wanting are good. There's nothing bad about this, even if I'm afraid of being too much or not enough or too sweaty or too much of a prude, or like, you know, to hold it as well, my desires are good and beautiful, and right, what no matter what gender you are, and to know that if someone else doesn't have those same desires, it's not that yours are wrong. It's just that there's a there's a mismatch, right? We're not necessarily matched. So
Unknown Speaker
to come from that place of I'm right and good, and how can I create and collaborate with someone? Versus I'm on my own over here, I've got to figure this out by myself. I can't ask any questions of someone else. That's, that's the worst is when you're like, you know, having an intimate relationship or a sexual relationship with someone and you feel like you should already know and you can't ask questions, because that would make you weak or unmanly or not feminine, or Wow, whatever it is. So yeah, talk about it, ask about it. And you can admit, this is kind of a vulnerable conversation and I've never had this or I'm afraid to have it. But you know, I really I want to.
Unknown Speaker
Oh, that is so so good. So thank you so much to my guest, Shana, Gene's, author of honest sex masterful coach, create tricks of incredibly empowering programs for women and, and for men, and
Unknown Speaker
I highly suggest that you check her out.
Unknown Speaker
All of the links are in the show notes. And I just want to say thank you so much for joining me today, Shayna. And for those that are listening,
Unknown Speaker
I invite you to please subscribe, and like and leave a comment when ever you get your podcasts, doing your part to create better sex and a better world. Thank you so much, and we'll see you at the next conversation.