Fantasies, Secrets & Good Sex with Dr. Toni Bear

In this episode of The Better Sex Podcast, I talk with sexologist and intimacy expert Dr. Toni Baer. We dive into sexual identity, fantasies, and the power of secrets in relationships. Dr. Toni shares how her personal journey—from high school teacher to sexologist—was shaped by a deeply personal family tragedy that ignited her passion for helping others embrace their desires and navigate sexual identity.

Along the way, we explore common sexual fantasies, why some are better left unspoken, and how privacy and consent shape intimate conversations. Dr. Toni also reveals how secrets can create stress in relationships offering guidance on how to balance openness with discretion.

From cultural perspectives on sexuality to vetting within kink and polyamorous communities, this conversation sheds light on how our different backgrounds can shape different desires. Dr. Toni also teases her upcoming TV show, The Voyage of Desire, offering a global look at human passion.

Listen in to discover how understanding your fantasies—and the role of secrets in your life—can lead to deeper intimacy and greater self-acceptance. 

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In our commitment accessibility, help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. The transcription is far from perfect, and in some cases quite amusing. As we grow edited transcripts are on the list in the meantime please enjoy.

Deborah [00:03:27]:

So these conversations are frank and explicit and may not be appropriate for all audiences. If you want to do your part in creating a safe and sexy world, please hit like subscribe and leave a comment wherever you get your podcasts. Today we are going to dive into the world of my guest, doctor Tony Bear. Doctor Tony Baer is a sexologist and a life coach on a mission to empower women to embrace their truth and explore the beautiful world of human sexuality. With over 25 years of dedicated research, mentoring, and personal exploration, she's gained expertise in the fascinating realms of the psychology of gender, women's sexual desires and fantasies, as well as sexual identity development. And I am just so excited to have you here as a guest. Doctor Tony is a new connection and one that I am very excited about. So welcome, doctor Tony.

Dr Toni [00:04:39]:

Well, thank you so much, Deborah. I am very excited to be on your show, and I didn't know it was going to be explicit. Now I am unfiltered, so that doesn't happen often.

Deborah [00:04:51]:

Well, I love hearing that. And thank you for taking off the filters. So, you know, sexuality and fantasies, and that's kind of a wild, wild world. And I'm curious, how did you get here? What brought you here?

Dr Toni [00:05:09]:

Well, it didn't start out wild. I have to say that I was a high school teacher and I lived a very ordinary life in the middle of the country with my new husband, a new teaching job. And I was absolutely heartbroken when I came home one day to where my parents live and found that my sister had attempted suicide. And the reason she attempted suicide is that she was struggling with her sexual identity. And, you know, my sisters, myself, my parents, we are all very, very liberal kinds of folks. And the thought that a teenager would rather hurt themselves, then disclose their sexual identity, that they're struggling to understand themselves, was devastating, as you can imagine. So when I started my doctoral program, the professor in charge told me that most people don't finish, and it isn't for lack of intellect, it's for lack of, of passion. He said, you need to have a topic that you have a fire in your belly that's going to help you finish because life is going to happen.

Dr Toni [00:06:39]:

And the thought that I could help teenagers such as my sister and others understand their sexual identity and understand that there are other people like you and that this is not the end of the world. It's a beginning of a new renaissance. And I actually was involved in the 1990s at that time with starting sexual allies groups, I guess we call them in high school for kids, a support group for kids questioning their identity and those that are their allies. So thats not that sexy and mysterious like fantasies. Its been a long ride. And my passion the last ten years has moved from sexual identity development in adolescence to adulthood. And I figured that I would spend my, what we would call my retirement years working with your just mainstream woman in a little town someplace or in a big city hiding. And she has fantasies and she thinks about these things and she has no idea how to talk to her partner or where to start.

Dr Toni [00:08:02]:

So that's where my passion is now. And as I said, it's been actually, it's been over 25 years now. It's been, oh, 35 years since the incident that I described.

Deborah [00:08:16]:

Wow. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And it occurs to me, as I was listening, that I have an idea of what you mean when you talk about sexual identity. But I'm curious. I'm curious if you'd take a moment and just define that for us.

Dr Toni [00:08:34]:

Sure. You know, 35 years ago, when I started working on this topic, sexual identity was defined very simplistically. And more recently, the idea of sexual identity is the same, although there are so many variations of how you might define that identity. So sexual identity is who you believe you are. That's identity. And sexual is who you believe that you are sexually in your expression of your sexuality. So traditionally, we have always said there's homosexual and there's heterosexual. Well, there's a lot more than that.

Dr Toni [00:09:24]:

But then we said there's bisexual. Then we said, well, sexual identity isn't binary. Sexual identity is fluid. So I tend to go with the thought that pretty much from Kenzie. So this is from the, you know, 40, 819, 50, that 10% of the population may be heterosexual, and 10% of the population may be homosexual, but 80% of the population is fluid. And your sexual identity is usually defined by the culture you live in. So whatever possibilities exist for you are the types of identities you might describe yourself as. If that makes sense.

Deborah [00:10:15]:

It does. It does. And as you're talking, I'm thinking about something that Dan Savage said that I. He said, there's always going to be, or there's often that one person or people that for whatever reason, there's a strong attraction. And it upsets your. Your thought of who you are. And I think that's really accurate. I think, at least in what I've seen in my practice and in my own life, there's often somebody who doesn't fit any of the things that I think I want, but just feeling.

Deborah [00:11:00]:

Being in their presence feels so. I feel so alive. I feel so turned on. And that's the feeling that I think that most of us are looking for when we talk about attraction and we talk about chemistry and such.

Dr Toni [00:11:20]:

Yeah. And it's so exciting when you open up your mind to possibility that there doesn't have to be one right way. Right. Whether it's one sexual position or one sexual partner or one gender identity, that is the only choice that you have. However, that's how I got into the topic of fantasies and studying fantasies that most self identified women have, because we might identify as monogamous as having one partner. Again, there are so many options of open relationships, polyamory, multiple loves. But if we have one partner or even two partners, let's say, you know, it's absolutely normal to have fantasies of other people, other ways of doing. We'll put quotes around this.

Dr Toni [00:12:24]:

It. Right. There's many different kinds of it. Right. So the more that you grow and expand and explore whether it's with one partner or more, hopefully, it's a very pleasurable, joyous experience.

Deborah [00:12:43]:

Yeah. And I'd like to even point out that that exploration can be just with yourself. And, in fact, it's one of the places that I like to suggest people start is, you know, we don't often have a really good idea of what. Of what we even like, because oftentimes, you know, we learn how to self pleasure or masturbate in a cloak of shame. And, you know, so it's often under the covers and quick and to the point. And, you know, very often it's one location in one position and learning that our bodies have, you know, that there's different places that we can feel pleasure, that different, different forms of pleasure. The kind of pleasure that I get when I get my feet rubbed is going to be very different than the kind of pleasure I have when my nipples are nibbled on or my clit is touched. And so actually getting to explore my own body and understand that as, you know, that different parts of my body want different things and elicit different thoughts and fantasies.

Dr Toni [00:13:57]:

That's exactly right. Some individuals, clients of mine, it's also where we start. And it's been interesting. This is maybe a little off the top topic, but it's been absolutely interesting doing online counseling of my clients. I have people from all over the world who. Who seek my help, and I always have to remember and learn and apply cultural consciousness on top of that. Right. So if someone from India, from a small town, contacts me, you know, what are the cultural norms there, you know, and understand that in her culture, in this case, you know, the two of us talking about masturbation, excuse me, is absolutely taboo.

Dr Toni [00:15:04]:

Absolutely taboo. And. And at the same time, it's very exciting for me because here we're talking about this, and she's practicing and coming back and giving me reports on these new pleasures that she's experiencing. Makes me happy as well, because here is somebody in a different part of the world who I would never meet in a million years by chance. And we're making a difference, Deborah, by working with folks from all over the place.

Deborah [00:15:39]:

Absolutely. And it's such a pleasure. I know in my practice I also get to talk to people from all over the world. But getting those different. There's different cultural, both the biases and the places where it's like something is maybe taboo here, but isn't taboo in another country. For instance, two men walking down the street holding hands in an american culture in most places is seen as odd or, you know, what's going on over there, whereas in other cultures, that's something that is perfectly normal and it's about friendship and it's about kinship. I'm curious, do you find that different parts of the world have different kinds of fantasies?

Dr Toni [00:16:31]:

Well, the research I've done here absolutely aligns with the research that I've seen in the UK. You know, we're across the ocean from one another, but at the same time, the fantasies are very similar. And I think that's probably more characteristic of all western type cultures. But at the same time, when I've spent time in England or England, Italy and Spain, there's more, at least perceived boundaries or limitations put on women, almost like the United States and UK 50 years ago. It's the opportunities to be sexually free. The stigma that comes from the society and the family and the church is so much stronger, even though the fantasies are the same, but the sin is greater. And as for other parts of the world, I really haven't studied it. You know, I'm very aware of cultural practices in different countries, but I have not looked at fantasies of folks in other countries.

Dr Toni [00:17:54]:

But that's a great idea.

Deborah [00:17:56]:

Well, I'm curious, you know, for me, when I think fantasy, one of the things that comes up is taboo, you know, something that is off limits taboo in normal day to day life. And so I'm imagining, and I'm just going to ask you to clarify, is it accurate that taboo, is that most fantasies have something taboo in theme?

Dr Toni [00:18:25]:

Um, not all fantasies do, but I would say most, yeah, most of them are things that are absolutely taboo. I have found that the number one fantasy amongst women over the years has changed. The top ten list has stayed basically the same, but the number one has changed right now, according to the latest research I've read, having multiple partners at one time is number one. And, yeah, that is generally taboo in most societies to have a threesome or an orgy type thing. You know, fantasies do not have to be a reality. Fantasies are in your head, right? They're your imagination, it's your dreams and some of your fantasies are conscious. And some are absolutely subconscious. You don't control your dreams.

Dr Toni [00:19:33]:

So, in fact, I was reading this morning about Cleopatra, and supposedly Cleopatra had the first vibrator, a hollow gourd filled with bees. That's what she used. And in this article I was reading, it said, what do you think was in her head? Warships. You know, a famine? Green silos? No. You know, she probably had some really hot thoughts in her head as she's masturbating with this very first vibrator we know in history.

Deborah [00:20:15]:

Starting to go down the rabbit hole, kind of. Gordon. And how did they get the bees in there? I'm going to pause that thought for just a moment, and I want to go back to something you said about fantasies don't have to reflect reality, nor do we have to act them out. And I think that's as basic as that sounds. I think it's a really interesting thing, because I'll often have clients that when I work with couples, they want to play out each other's fantasies. And sometimes there's anatomical things that get in the way. I mean, I think that's one of the interesting things, is that our fantasies do not need to be anatomically accurate in any way, shape, or form, and they don't, as you said, have to be acted out of. However, it often will give a little bit of a hint into what it is that somebody is wanting.

Deborah [00:21:17]:

So, you know, for me, and I could be completely wrong on this, but when I hear that somebody wants to have multiple partners, part of what I'm imagining is underneath that is the idea of being completely surrendered and completely over taken and also maybe so incredibly desirable that, like, everybody wants them. And so I like to play with, like, oh, well, so here's the fantasy. What does that mean underneath for you?

Dr Toni [00:21:50]:

And while this fantasy you have that's on a trapeze at the same time with, and you're not in that good a shape or have a physical challenge that you can't do, the trapeze artist thing that you have in your mind, um, you know, how else can you have that feeling, right? Where's it come from? But there are many ways to have that feeling. For some, with multiple sex partners, it's just absolutely doing nothing and being pampered, especially moms that are doing 14,000 things at one time and taking care of everybody else. The idea that everyone in the bed is taking care of you is, you know, is desirable to some.

Deborah [00:22:44]:

Absolutely. I love hearing. So I'm curious, like, when it comes to. Well, I'm actually curious about some of the other ten things that are on the list. To put you on the spot or not put you on the spot?

Dr Toni [00:23:01]:

Well, you know, in the top three in the last ten years has always been BDsm, especially since the writing and popularity of 50 shades of gray. And. And, you know, when I look at the category of BDsm, there are so many subcategories that on some lists of the top ten fantasies, folks that write those lists separate all of those different things and make them each a different number on the list. But among them are the concept of being dominated. Right. That someone takes you, that somebody wants you, as you had mentioned before, is a fantasy. Is a fantasy. Other folks would like to feel just a little bit of pain, like a spanking.

Dr Toni [00:24:00]:

As you know, the whole idea of more extreme BDsm and pain is never in the top ten list. Okay. But being dominated or dominating someone, for example, one of the partners might be the person who never initiates or very infrequently is in a. Well, in control of the sexual activity that you're doing. And maybe they want to switch more active versus more passive kinds of roles.

Deborah [00:24:39]:

That's often something I see with the couples that I work with is it's like, you know, the person who is often the initiator out in the world is like, I just want. I just want to lay back. I just want you to start. Or, you know, part of that piece is I'm always the one. You know, I really want to feel desired. You know, I get to put my desire and my attention on you all the time, and I really want to feel your attention and desire. And I know that things like doing something quickly or doing something in a place where you might get caught or those kinds of fantasies as well. Sort of the.

Deborah [00:25:34]:

We're so passionate about each other that we need it now.

Dr Toni [00:25:38]:

Right. Right in the elevator, right? Yeah. That's a third category, which is, like, novelty or variety or adventure, whether it's where you have sex or when you have sex. I have clients who report it during COVID When they were locked down with the kids, they felt like, you know, in their spouse that they never had a minute to themselves and couldn't masturbate. So they would run into the closet during the day and lock it from the inside and quickly masturbate real quick before someone comes back in the room and says, mom, what do you. Can you help me with? And, you know, I live in the country by myself for the most part with my spouse, and that didn't happen so to hear stories of lack of privacy and finding privacy, it's almost like, you know, you're masturbating when the kids are home. There's, you know, there's something taboo about that, right?

Deborah [00:26:50]:

Absolutely. I mean, the idea of getting caught. The idea of, you know, getting caught by children.

Dr Toni [00:27:00]:

Humiliation.

Deborah [00:27:01]:

Humiliation, exactly. So I'm curious, when somebody or a couple comes to you and says, hey, I have this fantasy and I want to talk to my lover about it, and I'm embarrassed or I'm afraid of what they might say or they might think, what do you tell them? How do you help them with that?

Dr Toni [00:27:30]:

Well, there would be multiple ways I would help. If they're afraid they're going to be judged with this fantasy that they have, I recommend, like, framing it as a dream that you had. Like, wow, I had this dream the other night. And to, you know, notice how they react to it and communicate, you know, this desire that you had that was subconscious, that you might want to try. So sometimes framing it as a dream takes away from that. You're trying to push this upon them. You know, you can say, this is what happened. It was really hot.

Dr Toni [00:28:15]:

What do you think? Right. To start the conversation, always start the conversation in private when you have a longer period of time. It's not something you throw out there on the way out the door with a little lunch bag to go to work. Right. Sometimes if it's a couple that's very playful in general, I would suggest making it into a game or perhaps bringing on the media, meaning that if you like to be, or you have a fantasy of being photographed or making a movie, but it's really important that the person do their research. And some fantasies, as we said before, are better not to have than to have because of all the repercussions emotionally, especially with multiple partners. But consent is very important. I suggest not to just try it one day, that we need consent and boundaries when new things are tried, to start slowly and to always be honest, especially if you have same sex fantasies and you're thinking of stepping out on your partner, that happens a little bit too often.

Dr Toni [00:29:45]:

Whether it's another partner for variety's sake, or same sex, that is one way to really ruin the relationship that you're in.

Deborah [00:29:57]:

So just to be clear, what you're saying is that to step out. Meaning to. To, you know, cheat.

Dr Toni [00:30:07]:

Yes.

Deborah [00:30:08]:

Or to find. To. To outsource your. Your fantasies to somebody that is not. That's outside of your agreements with your partner.

Dr Toni [00:30:18]:

Right. If you do not have an agreement and you're hiding something there that, you know, not to be honest with your partner. There are, you know, emotional consequences, relationship consequences, and also STD's and other type things that it's really not fair to bring into your own, you know, relationship at home. Which led to my one topic that we had talked about before is about keeping secrets.

Deborah [00:30:52]:

Right.

Dr Toni [00:30:52]:

And it's just not. It's not worth it. It's not worth it.

Deborah [00:30:58]:

Yeah. So before we would jump into that, because I'm very curious about what you have to say about secrets, and maybe this is part of the conversation around secrets. Do you want to. Do you need to tell your partner everything in terms of, like, all of your fantasies or, you know, if there's something that either feels too edgy to share or sometimes just feels private, is it okay to not share that with them? And then sort of the second question that goes with that is, is it okay to fantasize about people when you're with someone else? So, like, you're with your partner, and is it okay to fantasize about something, someone else or something else while you're with your partner? And do you need to tell them that?

Dr Toni [00:31:55]:

Well, I'll answer that if you do. So, I mean, I'm thinking both of us have that question come up pretty often, you know, in our practices. I think that you do not have to tell everybody everything that's in your head. I don't think that. Is it keeping a secret? Hmm. It is probably keeping a secret, which we'll talk about later, but. And there are consequences to keeping a secret. However, fantasies are not necessarily something that you want to bring to the surface.

Dr Toni [00:32:38]:

And fantasies are private. I see them as private. I think that if you. There's a couple times where I think it's. Or a few instances where I think it's very healthy to share one. If you want your love life, your sex life, to go from one to 90 miles an hour. One way to do that is through sharing fantasies, but they also can be very hurtful. Right.

Dr Toni [00:33:09]:

You know, if you're having a fantasy about your husband's best friend, happens a lot. I, you know, I don't think that's something that you want to share because I think it would be more hurtful than it would be helpful. I don't think your spouse is necessarily, for most people, going to get off on the idea of you having sex with his best friend. And many fantasies are temporary. It's like the fantasy of the day. Right. So if it isn't something that is negatively affecting your relationship, then I don't think that you have to disclose. What about you, Deborah? What do you think?

Deborah [00:33:58]:

Yeah, I mean, I would say something very similar. I know in my own life, I've certainly shared a lot of fantasies with my partner and gauged some of the ones that he's been more open to and less open to, and some of the ones that he's been less open to. I haven't really shared more about that. In the case of the best friend, I wouldn't necessarily talk about the best friend, but I might say something about, you know, noticing that hot guy who is working on his car or something along those lines. And certainly I've had couples where in working with them, one of the couples felt incredibly threatened by the idea that their partner was thinking about something or someone else during sex. And that was a really interesting conversation because my thought was like, well, are they completely checked out, or are they kind of checking out and then checking back? And, you know, for some of us, there are certain thoughts and things that are very helpful in the arousal state. And so I think it's. I'm going to answer that.

Deborah [00:35:24]:

Yes, Ann?

Dr Toni [00:35:27]:

Yeah. Yeah. And absolutely. Because I think, what if your fantasy that you're having is your ex and you're having sex with your partner and that comes into your head and, yeah, if it helps with the arousal process, great. But if you keep thinking of somebody else when you're having sex with the one you're with, that's very problematic over time. Right. Over time, something. Something is going on there that really needs to be resolved.

Deborah [00:36:01]:

Yeah. And just to be really clear, I think there's a big difference between sort of taking a moment and going on a little ride and then coming back to your partner and just being completely absent emotionally during, you know, you're there physically, but you're not there emotionally. Um, and so I. I just want to say that those, those in my, in my experiences are very different things like, to be completely checked out versus to go visit and come back are two very different things.

Dr Toni [00:36:37]:

Um, and for some fantasies, for me anyhow, are, um, what do you call, um. Oh, since this is an explicit show, I'm trying to think of the proper words for spank bank. You know, it's your, it's your vault of ideas in your head that help you get off when you're by yourself, right? Yeah. And fantasies. Yes, you can have fantasies when you're with someone, but my research and attention is mostly on fantasies that you crave and you really would like to try and how to have that conversation, as you said. And what is very important is if you're single and you're looking for that fantasy to come true, what a wonderful time to try, right. To make sure you're safe and that you are experiencing something in an emotionally and physically healthy way. I've seen a lot of folks go out, meet some people on the Internet, and really use some very unsafe practices.

Deborah [00:37:46]:

What would you say is a safe practice then?

Dr Toni [00:37:51]:

Well, to give, like, an example, some women have met men on the Internet that have claimed that they are an expert in bdsm. And the woman is brand new, and the gender really here doesn't matter. It could be reverse or same sex, what have you. And then he ties her up and they have a great session, a good session, and go. But if he's really not an expert and he's using rope, it is very, very easy to, unfortunately, give nerve damage to different areas of the body. There are lots of people, too many people, claiming that they know what they're doing when they really don't. Just because you can tie up a bale of hay in the backyard doesn't mean you understand anatomy. You might do well with knots, but not the body.

Dr Toni [00:38:54]:

Right. So that's, like, an example of the kinds of things that I like to work with, especially women in that exploration phase that, what a wonderful time to try, but there are certain things for safety sake that are important.

Deborah [00:39:13]:

Yeah. And I just want to put in my personal, please don't try to choke each other. Please don't use breath control. Those can be incredibly dangerous. And I've known people who have been incredibly experienced, who have also had it go terribly wrong. And so, you know, I think there's. We see that a lot in porn, and it is growing in popularity. And I would just really caution people that those are practices that look good on.

Deborah [00:39:54]:

On screen or paper, but don't always pan out the way you would prefer them.

Dr Toni [00:39:58]:

Right.

Deborah [00:39:59]:

So, yeah. And just, you know, to help these fantasies come true, you know, really having conversations with people and as you said, you know, vetting the people that you're playing with and how do you vet the people that we play with? One of the beautiful things about the kink bdsm community is that oftentimes it is in, you know, it is appropriate, if not encouraged, to say, and who have you played with before? And I. Would it be okay if I checked in with them? You know, that's one of the things I like about the poly community as well, is oftentimes, you know, if there's somebody that you're interested in playing with, you can, you know, ask them, like, it is completely appropriate to ask, you know, who else have you played with? Who else do you play with? May I check in with them? So it's really interesting, the different cultures and the different things that. That are appropriate in. In different, I guess, subcultures. Is that the right term for that?

Dr Toni [00:41:05]:

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as you were talking about community. There are communities, and then there are communities of the communities and sub communities of those sub communities. Right. There is a community for anything that you probably can dream of. Right? So. And not every community is a good community, meaning ethical in itself. And that is probably the number one reason why I didn't retire from the university and go out and to pasture myself. I've always wanted to retire and just paint and write books and travel.

Dr Toni [00:41:42]:

And I have a real passion in helping women understand those communities that you're talking about. The swinger community, the poly community, the kink community, and, for example, in the King community, there is a het community and a queer community and a woman's community. And within those, there are subgroups. So I happen to be very fortunate to travel around the world and all over the United States. And one of the very cool things is I probably know somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody that. That is claiming that they're a trapeze artist and they can do all these different things. So, you know, how do you get that knowledge? How do you understand the communities? And even a munch group for kink people or a meetup group for swinger folks? Not every group is ethical, and not every leader of every group is ethical. So it's.

Dr Toni [00:42:53]:

And I don't mean to frighten people, but if you go out and explore yourself without the inside information, you might be aligning yourself with people that are not very ethical. Right. So, yeah.

Deborah [00:43:10]:

Well, thank you for that warning and reminder, because I think it is very important to remind ourselves that we are playing in adult realms. And this kind of segues nicely into the idea of keeping secrets in terms of the kinds of secrets that get kept. And one of the things that I loved about our earlier conversation was you were talking about, know, what's the cost of having a secret?

Dr Toni [00:43:42]:

Right? Um, you know, we all have secrets. It's actually, the stats now are 97% of all people in the United States we have a secret now. So just like fantasies, is it bad to have one? No, it's not bad to have one. And on average, though, most of us are holding 13 secrets, not necessarily about ourselves, but about your family, about work, about, you know, your own sexual fantasies, etcetera. And what happens is we become overloaded and it affects our brain functioning, it affects our emotionality, it affects us different ways, physically and spiritually. So, you know, if you're holding all of these secrets and they're building up and building up, there are consequences of that. Now, not every secret, obviously, is about sex. It could be an addiction.

Dr Toni [00:44:54]:

You're drinking too much and you're hiding that. It could be gambling. Other than addictions, it could be a family secret or a dysfunctional family with many, many secrets. And, you know, that all starts adding up. If you want me to, you know, I don't know if you want me to talk about the brain and the different cortexes and what happens exactly. But to give you.

Deborah [00:45:23]:

I love it when you talk about the brain and the cortex.

Dr Toni [00:45:27]:

Talk about the brain, well, it is.

Deborah [00:45:30]:

The biggest sex organ, after all.

Dr Toni [00:45:32]:

It truly is. It truly is. And just to put it simply, the more that you hold, the more stress you have. You don't realize that you are stressing your brain and your body because if you think about the brain and neurons and how they connect, you have a pathway from stimulus to your response, right? And if it goes through this process and, you know, you have to stop the process because it's a secret and you have to divert it someplace else for you to either not talk about it and remember what to not talk about, or it's an area that you, you just have to, you know, just absolutely change the way you think. That has to occur many, many, many times for it to be a permanent memory of keeping a secret. But keeping a secret isn't a permanent memory. Hopefully, it's something that you have to hold for a while. Well, that causes stress in your system.

Dr Toni [00:46:43]:

And when you have stress, the consequences are foggy brain, foggy memory. Right. Higher blood pressure, you're slowing down your metabolism as a woman, could affect your gastrointestinal tract. People get nervous or an upset stomach. Right. So all of these secrets, the bigger the secret, the higher the anxiety. The higher the anxiety, the more extreme you ready for the fight or flight mechanism to be triggered every single time. And over time.

Dr Toni [00:47:26]:

This is not good news for most women. It affects the collagen in your skin, at least to deeper wrinkles and loss of elasticity. Osteoporosis, increase blood pressure. I'm not saying that keeping a secret gives you osteoporosis, but what I'm saying is it's a contributing. Stress is a contributing factor in all of those diseases that I just mentioned.

Deborah [00:47:56]:

Well, so now I have a follow up question, because as somebody who works with people in private situations holding information, am I putting myself at a higher risk, or is there a way in which the brain says, you know, yes, these are things that we don't talk about, or these are. This is confidential. Is there a differential between this is confidential and this is a secret?

Dr Toni [00:48:30]:

Yes. Yeah.

Deborah [00:48:31]:

Good.

Dr Toni [00:48:33]:

I will tell you, though, Covid. The shutdown during COVID gave me a new appreciation for what my wife does for a living. She's a therapist, a mental health therapist. And while I couldn't hear, nor did I want to, the conversation she was having with clients downstairs, the electrical outlets, I could hear the tone of what people were saying. And some people were crying, some people were whining, some people. It was like, all day she does it back to back to back. I don't. I have, like, one client, and then I go write a chapter of a book and I might have another one later in the evening.

Dr Toni [00:49:14]:

I do different things. What I realized is why she doesn't talk to me when she comes home to hear about incest, sexual abuse, domestic violence all day, the first thing she does is take a shower when she gets home. It is a self care ritual where she kind of cleanses, and it all goes down the drain. Or practitioners that have to hold information and confidentiality, it isn't really the secret, it's the nature of your job. However, the stress hormones do flare up. If, you know, you're hearing things that are so upsetting, you would like to scream it out to the world, like call the police or, you know, or something. Might not be illegal, but it's definitely unethical and hurtful, and you can't do anything about it. If you have to hold all of that in, that is a great deal of stress.

Dr Toni [00:50:28]:

Your practice. In my practice, we do deal with folks that are unhappy or have secrets, but we also really experience a lot of joy every day in the celebration. You know, I'm a coach. I'm leading somebody up to their goal, and I'm coaching them along, and I'm their greatest cheerleader. And most of my job is happy, you know, so.

Deborah [00:50:56]:

Yes, and as I'm hearing you say that, too, it just reminds me, you know, when I was a massage therapist, I had a very solid ritual. I had my coming into the office and cleaning and clearing and grounding ritual, and I had my end of the day ritual, which was, you know, taking a walk and taking a shower. And while I don't have, you know, I have small rituals around even my day, you know, as coach as well. So it sounds like what you're saying is having the rituals to help release when we hold a lot is incredibly important for our well being.

Dr Toni [00:51:40]:

Right. And, you know, you don't have to agree and consent to hold other people's secrets. Right. So, you know, one of the biggest learnings I've had in my life is my grandmother told me a secret about my mother when I was 16. Like, one of those dirty family secrets. Why she told me, I swear it was the beginning of dementia, because I could have lived the rest of my life not knowing this secret, this family secret. Although many years later, I see it as a blessing because it was about my older sister, and none of the rest of us were alive yet. And I can be there and support my sister now, now that no one is alive who knows my sister's secret, right.

Dr Toni [00:52:34]:

And I could be her support network for that secret. So, you know, sometimes learning something that's a secret could be, you know, when I was 16, 1820, that was stressful, knowing this secret. But now I've released it by having the conversation with my sister. The opportunity came up at the right time, at the right place, and now we can support one another. So, while something might be stressful, sometimes the disclosure of that in a way that's still holding to the promise that you made somebody is liberating in many ways. I talked to my wife. She's in recovery, and she goes to AA meetings twice a week, every week. And that is her self care.

Dr Toni [00:53:33]:

That's what she does. To talk through all the events of her life. For myself, you know, I don't have to hold any of those secrets that she has till she resolves the process through working through those. And since this is about sex, it doesn't affect our sex life. Like, I'm not holding her stuff in my head. I'd rather not, you know, if she has support from other people, of course I'll be there for her. But, you know, sometimes there are other people that you could talk to rather than the one that you're closest to because it affects your sex life negatively.

Deborah [00:54:15]:

So. Good. So, I I'm really curious. We're getting towards the end of our time, and I can't believe that it moves so fast, but I want to know, a, what you're working on, and b, if you were. If somebody was to get one thing out of our conversation. I'm curious what that might be. And I'm going to give you a moment to think about that while I let people know about how they can support the better sex podcast. Because sex is a complex subject and it can make or break a relationship.

Deborah [00:54:54]:

And unfortunately, most of us don't grow up in an environment where talking about sex is welcome. That's why I offer the bedroom breakthrough session. This is a personalized one on one experience so that you can have the sex and relationship that you desire. Because let's face it, a podcast is not enough. Even as good a podcast as this one is, you really do need someone to help share the secrets with and to have tools and exercises so that you can work on becoming better at what it is that you want. And so I invite people. Please check out the show notes. There is a link to the bedroom breakthrough.

Deborah [00:55:38]:

Please take me up on my offer. I love talking to people about sex and supporting them and having better sex. So on that note, I'm curious, what are you working on? I know you've got a. You were talking about books.

Dr Toni [00:55:55]:

Yeah, I'm working on three of them. But let's talk about something that really is going on.

Deborah [00:56:01]:

Okay.

Dr Toni [00:56:02]:

My newest, greatest adventure. And oh my God, I am having so much fun. Deborah is. I have a new tv show. I've never done television before, and it's out of LA, and it is shown in 192 countries. It's streamed online. And if you'd like, I can give you a link where someone could watch it for free online.

Deborah [00:56:30]:

Yes.

Dr Toni [00:56:32]:

It's called the Voyage of desire, and it's a half an hour program. It's on basic human desires. It's rated pgd. And the first one is in Paris, the first episode. And is Paris the most romantic place in the world? And in each episode, I do some video montages, but most enjoyable is doing a short ten minute interview with an expert and about five, six minutes worth of interviews with multiple people on the street outside the Louvre for this one. Other episodes are in Costa Rica, the Poconos. I find the most romantic places in the world. The topics vary, whether it's our desire to make a difference in the world or a desire to flirt and find a new partner.

Dr Toni [00:57:23]:

So all gender identities would appreciate this show and all sexual identities. It's nothing in one bucket, right? It's the world with so many different flavors and opportunities to experience pleasure in the world, whether it's a food or a sexual activity.

Deborah [00:57:49]:

I love that. And can you say the name of the tv show again?

Dr Toni [00:57:52]:

It's called the Voyage of Desire.

Deborah [00:57:56]:

Okay, that's hot.

Dr Toni [00:58:00]:

Yeah. Yeah. I. I had a Facebook group called the Voyage of Aphrodite because I love Aphrodite and the goddess of love, and Facebook took me down, but I'm putting it back up again. Yeah. So I started it as the voyage of desire and shifted recently to Voyage of Aphrodite again. However, the show, I like the voyage of desire because it's a pretty generic term that our desires are to learn new things. It gives me the opportunity to explore my next episode.

Dr Toni [00:58:39]:

I'm taping is our desire for affection. It's going to take place in a kitty cafe. We would go with all these little kittens to give us affection. Right. And why people started that. And how else could you get affection other than from a whole bunch of kittens, which is lovely. I love. I love kids.

Dr Toni [00:59:01]:

So, you know, it's topics that are just not the mainstream. They're fun.

Deborah [00:59:10]:

I love hearing that. So where can people find you?

Dr Toni [00:59:15]:

They can find me all over online. Doctor Tony Bear, Voyage of Desire is not all over line online yet. You would have a hard time. But if you find Doctor Tony Bear, I have a website. I'm on every social media platform except for Twitter. That's the only one I don't like. But I'm on TikTok and Instagram, Facebook, YouTube. All over the place.

Deborah [00:59:42]:

All over the place. Thank you. All right, well, thank you again, Doctor Tony Bear, for your time and what a great conversation. And so please follow her all over social media. Doctor Tony Bear and I look forward to getting to follow you and see what you're up to next. And the tv, the link for the tv show will be in the show notes as well as the other places to find her. And thank you so much for coming and joining me. And I look forward to having you on the next.

Deborah [01:00:26]:

To those that are listening, I look forward to our next adventure together. Thank you so much and thank you.