Neurodivergent Love: Autism & Relationships with Tanja Diamond

In this episode I talk with autistic polymath, maverick leader, business & life strategist and Tantra lineage holder Tanja Diamond. Tanja opens up about her own experiences as an introvert and offers valuable advice on embracing awkwardness during the dating process.
She shares her insights on autism, relationships, and the journey to better sex. Hear more of Tanja’s journey with the unique dating challenges faced by individuals on the autism spectrum. During our conversation, we talk about understanding love and lust, autistic struggles, healing trauma and how to turn awkward conversations into fantastic sex.  You don’t have to be neurodivergent to get a lot from this conversation –  everyone, regardless of neurodiversity, can encounter difficulties in relationships and learn from Tanja’s wisdom.
 
https://www.facebook.com/tanja.diamond/ 


https://www.linkedin.com/in/tanjadiamond/ 


https://learningtantra.com/
 

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In our commitment accessibility, help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. The transcription is far from perfect, and in some cases quite amusing. As we grow edited transcripts are on the list in the meantime please enjoy.

Deborah [00:00:02]:

Okay.

Tanja D [00:00:06]:

I will throw some lip gloss on while you're doing that.

Deborah [00:00:09]:

Okay. And here we go. Welcome to the better sex podcast. My name is Deborah Kat, and I am your shameless host. This is the Better Sex Podcast, where we have unfiltered conversations about sex and relationships. This show is about the many possibilities of sex and relationships and helping you figure out what works for you so you can have better sex on your terms. I truly believe that a sexy world creates a happier and a safer world. If you want to do your part to create a safe and sexy world, please hit like subscribe and leave a comment wherever you get your podcasts.

Deborah [00:00:59]:

Woohoo. So today I'm super excited. I've been wanting to have this conversation for quite some time. We are going to dive into the world of my guest, Tanya Diamond. She is an autistic, polymath, business and life strategist tantra lineage holder. Her 45 years of unique worldwide education, extensive knowledge in thousands of subjects, and certifications in hundreds of modalities make her a goto person. Her visionary work in healing and optimizing the nervous system boasts a 99% success rate in transforming trauma and unwanted behaviors. She is a Ted Talk speaker and organizer, a best selling author, international speaker, and coach to new TEDx speakers.

Deborah [00:02:02]:

Today we are going to talk about dating and autism. But before we dive into that subject, I would love to know more about you and your journey and how did you get here?

Tanja D [00:02:15]:

Well, first of all, thank you so much for getting through that bio. It's like, are you serious now? Yes, and I love the sex part in there that I knew you had to throw sex in there somewhere. I don't know that I wrote that, but I'm glad you put it in there, because that's what we're all about here. Exactly. So how did I get here? Oh, my God, we don't even have time for that. But I will give you the Reader's Digest version. I've been somebody who quite clearly was intrigued and interested in a lot of things in life, and I have graduated from high school at 16, got a crazy high IQ. Everybody thought I was developmentally delayed because I couldn't read regular words.

Tanja D [00:03:04]:

I could only read big words, but they didn't know that. It's a long story. Full anybody who has autism has probably been through a lot of things. Most people don't realize I'm autistic because I found out that by regulating my nervous system, which is why I did a deep dive into all those trauma things. And healing my trauma meant that my autistic behaviors or symptoms actually don't look that way. And so I didn't actually come out as autistic in public until about a year and a half ago, which was so incredibly interesting given that people who had known me for decades were like, but you're so successful. What? And then my favorite one of all was, do you have to disclose that to your clients? I think I responded to that. I don't know.

Tanja D [00:03:58]:

Do you have to disclose you're an idiot. Somebody said, oh, now I know why you're so direct, or why you're such an asshole. Can I say asshole on your show? Yeah, of course. Now I know why you're such an asshole. And I'm like, no, I was being an asshole to you. That was not anything to do. And you're muted, so we can't hear you're laughing if you know that. Anyway, so I've had an extraordinary life, grown up in every continent in the world, spent most of my life traveling, and I am that person that wakes up in the morning and says, I think I want to fly helicopters.

Tanja D [00:04:37]:

So I go out and start flying helicopters and get my pilot's license, and I haven't had to work full time most of my life. I was one of the first women to make money online that wasn't in the port industry. Not saying that that's a bad thing either way, but I'm just saying that's that back in 1992. So I've been online a lot, been pretty well everywhere you want to be. And if I'm interested in a subject, I pretty well take it on full force. So that's the Reader's Digest version. And sex. Yeah.

Tanja D [00:05:09]:

First time I had sex, I'm like, dude, people do this again. And he said, well, it gets better. And I'm like, if it didn't get better, nobody would ever do this. And I found that sex was incredibly dismal and went on a search to figure out, what the heck? Why is it we have such bad sex most of the time? Why are people bad at this thing? So that was my interest in sex as a scorpio with lots of scorpio houses, I'm into death and sex. Got it.

Deborah [00:05:40]:

Well, the obvious question there is, why do you think that people have such bad?

Tanja D [00:05:47]:

Well, because it's all romanticized. I mean, Hollywood and porn teach us things that we believe are true. I don't know why we believe they're true, but we do. So we have this fallacy that if it's the right person, it's all going to be great. How many women? Probably men, too, or other people. How many people let's just say people here. I'm working on my inclusive language, so you all help me out. How many people kiss on the first kiss they have? They decide if it was bad, they're never going to date again.

Tanja D [00:06:23]:

And that's the most ridiculous thing on the planet. Really? Completely. How somebody kisses one person that they learned how to kiss is not representative of how they're going to have sex. It's representative of how maybe their last person liked to be kissed or they're just a bad kisser. And you got to teach them something. The idea that pheromones, which really rule our lives, that the belief that if you have great pheromones, that's that initial spark you have, right, that means you're going to have a good relationship is ludicrous. So we have so little education about love, lust, desire. The fact that people think love is the reason to have a relationship is ridiculous.

Tanja D [00:07:09]:

I'm writing a book called Uncoupling Love because that's not the big reason to have a relationship. Chemistry is not the big reason to have a relationship. So when we don't understand the mechanisms of our own bodies let on somebody else's and then the dynamic of the two, yeah, great. And if you only think good sex is an orgasm, well, I can take a breath and have an orgasm. And it is true that my relationship to myself is awesome, but most people I talk to don't think that orgasm itself is equated with sexual satisfaction. So obviously I have a lot to say on this topic.

Deborah [00:07:48]:

Absolutely. And I've got a couple of questions. So when you say pheromones, are pheromones and chemistry the same thing?

Tanja D [00:07:59]:

So there's different when we say a spark or we have chemistry with somebody, most of us don't actually know what we're saying visually. There's visual chemistry, like something you like geometrically about the person, right. So that lights your visual centers up. There's auditory that lights your auditory senses up. I'm a sapiosexual. Give me a man who can speak some sexy big words. And I'm like, Whoa. Yeah.

Tanja D [00:08:26]:

So there's that part, right? But when I talk about pheromones, I'm talking about the bacteria on your body that is sensed by your limbic system, which is the primal part of your brain that basically is procreating. It's like you can see the person. You may not even be attracted to the person, but you want to have their babies. You will kill to get to them. You will cheat on your person to get to them. You will lose your values because high pheromone and it's on a continuum from tribe mate to high, as high as it can go. High pheromones short circuit our critical thinking.

Deborah [00:09:08]:

I was so glad that you said that because when I work with clients, especially around dating, this idea of was there chemistry? Was there not chemistry? And my question is always like, well, okay, that's great, and are you actually aligned with what you're wanting in a relationship? And so I love hearing you say basically that all of these things are wonderful and if you're going to procreate the pheromone piece, is an indication that you've got is complementary genes the right thing to say?

Tanja D [00:09:49]:

Yeah. So opposite immunity. So you would build a more superior baby. And even if you don't want babies, you still feel that you may not go, I want to have their babies. But that's your drive that's happening. So yeah, absolutely. It's the opposite immune system, builds more robust humans and that's the opposite subtract thing. But opposite subtracting and other things does not work well at all.

Tanja D [00:10:15]:

So we've got it a little bit backwards. And men have a more diluted sense. Men can be more chemically attracted. pheromonally attracted to a wider range. Women have a more acute olfactory sense. And so we're even more pointed. But if we are on that high level, our brain literally yeah, you could be at a date. You see the person across the room and you're like but you get within smell range and all of a sudden you're like, this is the most fantastic person on the planet.

Tanja D [00:10:50]:

And all of the red flags, all the critical thinking, everything is gone, literally gone. If it's way high up in the top range now if you don't have it at all and you've probably seen this in your clients, people say, yeah, they're my best friend. We're just so compatible. We just get along. It's great. But there's no passion. Neither one is trying to chase each other. They maybe want sex, but they're not trying to chase each other down the hallway.

Tanja D [00:11:20]:

That lack of pheromone or intensity. You can still have great intimate sex, but you should never try to push it to the oh, I want to feel that incredible passion that I felt for that other person that blew my mind. And now everything I'm comparing against that. Right? So this is where we get in trouble. And then, you know, the pill. If you're on the pill, you will respond more to your tribe mate. So if you're dating and on the pill or any type of hormonal birth control, you will be attracted to your tribe mate, which essentially is your brother, sister family off that. In fact, divorce lawyers call the pill.

Tanja D [00:12:05]:

We call the pill like divorce central because when you get off that, all of a sudden you can't stand the way they smell or you weren't on the pill and you picked them and you got pregnant and you want them about 1000ft away from you, you cannot stand them.

Deborah [00:12:22]:

Wow, I had no idea. God, it's so interesting. So I've been with my partner for 23 years and I'm just trying to think, like, I can't even remember.

Tanja D [00:12:38]:

What.

Deborah [00:12:38]:

Originally drew us to each other. But I know hearing that conversation, it's like we've certainly gone through the different stages, right? There's been the lust stage, there's been the comfort stage. There's never been a baby stage that we were pretty clear from that right up front. But it's just interesting because we've been together so long that both of us have had situations where our bodies have changed and we've had places where it's sort of like less interesting to each other and then something will change again. And then it's like, oh, hey, you. I remember you.

Tanja D [00:13:17]:

The pheromones never change. So pheromones are solid all the way through, but if you have a more like so let's say zero tribe ten, most intense ever, right? What you're describing is more down in this range right here, which is like one to five, right? And so that can vary depending on circumstances. And like you said, body changes for sure up here in the ten range, 910 range, it doesn't matter. It's the weirdest thing on the planet. And I've had it all. I've ranged relationships all the way through this. But one thing I wish they would do is a study on fertility. My guess is that women who had sex with their tens would probably be more liable to get pregnant than women that are in the lower range.

Tanja D [00:14:16]:

I know that certainly they're more easily orgasmic, like natural versus working towards orgasm more naturally, spontaneously orgasm with up in that ten range. And that's why I think fertility probably isn't interesting. But nobody's done that study.

Deborah [00:14:33]:

You said something that I wanted to go back to for just a second because it almost sounds counterintuitive to what I thought about, which was that women actually have a much more narrow bandwidth and men are actually more they have less.

Tanja D [00:14:54]:

Wider range.

Deborah [00:14:56]:

Because at least in my brain, what I always think of is men have a type and women are more visual.

Tanja D [00:15:06]:

You're talking about a visual cue and that type is programmed. So men actually don't have a type. They have fertility cues, but they don't actually have a type until they're programmed. So if you took men and threw them out in a clan somewhere as babies, right, and they're raised around a certain type of women. Let's say every woman weighed 300 pounds and beauty was 300 pounds with a lot of SAG and a lot of cellulite, which in some countries it is, by the way, like in some countries, even though I'm big, I'm way too small. I would be say you're too small. But beauty would be programmed by other people and by what was around you. When technology hit the scene and we had the internet, all of a sudden men started more and women as well started queuing into oh, ejaculation or masturbation erotic with this certain type.

Tanja D [00:16:05]:

And you can actually program a type into your brain that you would never have picked in the wild.

Deborah [00:16:13]:

So how do you unprogram then?

Tanja D [00:16:16]:

The same way. You just start looking at bigger, more variety. You start finding beauty and arousal in different types of things. The same way you program is the same thing over and over and over again. You stop using the same thing over and over again and you start opening up the channels. And so you could reprogram your attraction level or your attraction preference. Let's just say that wow.

Deborah [00:16:47]:

Gosh the mind reels on that one.

Tanja D [00:16:49]:

I know, right?

Deborah [00:16:53]:

I love that. We've already sort of jumped into quite a few things here, but I do want to bring in the autism piece. And first of all, get a little bit of I mean, I think I know what that means, but I'm curious if you could break it down a little bit more.

Tanja D [00:17:11]:

Love to. Because the next time I hear somebody say they're a little autistic, I'm just like, or their dog's autistic. So as we know, neurodivergence is a big hot topic now. And a lot of people who have and this is going to be controversial trigger warning. A lot of people who are identifying as autistic and neurodivergent actually have symptoms of trauma. Trauma, mimics, ADHD, add these things pretty closely. And I found through my own work and thousands of clients, 100,000 plus clients right now, that most people, if they handle their nervous system and regulate their nervous system, don't have the symptoms that they had now, they may have still have brain changes. Things may still be different, but it won't be as overt.

Tanja D [00:18:00]:

We're all dysregulated these days. There is nobody that I've met in the last 15 years isn't dysregulated because of the way they're living, unless they're living out on some land somewhere without technology, just saying, okay, so autism isn't when they say a spectrum, people think that means a little autistic to a lot autistic. And that's not how that works. There are actually seven buckets of sensory processing in different buckets that you have to have all of them to be considered autistic. So you may have them in varying degrees. For instance, sensory things. My skin is super sensitive. I am highly picky about things around on my skin.

Tanja D [00:18:42]:

They have to feel a certain way. And so that's something that would make me crazy when I was younger, get in a bed smell or sensory thing, it literally lose my mind if somebody tried to put clothes on me that didn't feel right. Verbal, clearly I'm verbal, so I don't have any problems with that. Though I used to have complete problems with the ability to filter. If I thought it, it was coming out of my mouth. People now think I'm not very tactful. People will say Tanya's. Really? Blunt not.

Tanja D [00:19:17]:

You don't even know. If you knew what was going on in my brain, you would think I was the diplomat of the year. I'm just saying my ability to hold back what I'm really thinking is pretty intensely cool. But I see things differently in the world. Whereas if you saw a picture of an elephant and a photograph of an elephant and an elephant, most people would see those things as the same. You would identify these things are similar. Right. Things that are real in live versus pictures look completely different to me.

Deborah [00:19:53]:

Can you seem a little exactly.

Tanja D [00:19:57]:

Because I don't see solid in an animal or a person. And how energy streams is different than how energy streams on a flat, non dynamic, nonliving thing. So they look different.

Deborah [00:20:14]:

That sounds like you actually experience and see the energy as well as the visual representation.

Tanja D [00:20:23]:

Right? Well, I'm also a tetrachromatic, which means I see a million colors versus other people seeing way less than that. So the colors that I see are completely different. So then that doesn't make it real either because a photo has been processed and has way less color ranges than what my eye sees. So I had to learn that. The other thing was I snapshot read. I don't read single words. So I was at home at four reading Encyclopedia Britannica and I went to school and they thought I was developmentally delayed because I couldn't read A. When they tried to break it up into the alphabet, I had no idea what anybody was talking about.

Tanja D [00:21:00]:

C, dick. Run. I didn't know what they were saying. I was clueless. So the way I process information completely different than most people do. Ability to be out in the world, stimulus, visual, auditory, skin, all of these things processing information the way it goes into my brain and revolves around there basically something happens. My brain takes it, it ends up running it through multichannels faster than anybody can think. And the difference between saying my brain races my brain does not race.

Tanja D [00:21:41]:

It's hyper efficient. It doesn't loop in loops. So people who are anxious loop their brain races but it's anxiety and looping. What? I should have said this. I wonder about that. It's negative self talk. Mine is going like a computer on where does that connect to everything else? And then in half a second I'm like, oh, that connects to astrophysics, quantum physics, this, that, and the other. Boom.

Tanja D [00:22:05]:

Put it together, there it is. So it's kind of crazy. And I thought, of course, everybody was like that.

Deborah [00:22:13]:

So we've got the processing piece, we've got the visual piece, we've got the audio piece, we've got the lack of filter piece.

Tanja D [00:22:26]:

Social cues. So that's the big one where people say people with autism can't this brings it back to dating, right? Social cues. I happen to have acute social cues. But the problem with that is when I walk up to somebody and say, why are you scared? And they look at me and go, I'm not scared. I'm like you're clearly scared. No, I don't feel scared at all. Okay? So that would tell me that I didn't know what was going on. When in the reality is I see far beyond.

Tanja D [00:22:59]:

I see tiny little nuances around their eye nose, their respiration rate and whatever else. So what I'm seeing isn't always what they're aware they're feeling. So what happens then? It looks like I'm not reading social cues.

Deborah [00:23:14]:

Right. And your Ted Talk was about this about being able to see and hear things that people weren't saying. And that the nuance of lies.

Tanja D [00:23:33]:

Lying. Yeah. The fact that basically we're all worried about people lying to us when the reality is we lie to ourselves more often. Yeah, and so that was part of it. I would see people lying and I'd say, Why are you lying about that? And they would look at me like I was crazy. And so I was told that I couldn't read social cues well, that I didn't understand the subtleties of what was going on when I begged to differ, that I was actually seeing what was really going on that people didn't want to talk about. Now, I can't say that's true for all people with autism, right? But I can say that the processing information and speed that a lot of people with autism, whether they're verbal or not, means that probably they're very confused about what they're actually witnessing and feeling and seeing versus what people are telling them is real.

Deborah [00:24:27]:

Because in dating, particularly, this idea of social cues and particularly that's when people tend to say, like, oh, he's on the spectrum, or she's on the spectrum, or whatever, because it's around the norms that we've agreed on that make no sense, right?

Tanja D [00:24:50]:

Yeah. So at a first date, I went on 150 dates once in a month because I like to data collect. So when I do something, I dive deep into it. I was in the same restaurant. I'd scheduled them an hour at a time, and the wait staff was giving me thumbs up and down when people were walking in and walking out. So when I date, people love me or they hate me. There's no middle ground about me. I'm cool with that.

Tanja D [00:25:16]:

It's all right. A guy would walk in and he'd sit down, and I would look at him and go, okay, so you're not attracted to me? And he'd look at me and go, what? And I said, you don't find me visually attractive? True or false? And he'd be like, well and I'm like, if it's true and that's a problem for you, we can just bypass this whole thing right now. Just say, hey, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Bye. And some of them were so flabbergasted at the fact that that was just real. Right. Or they'd sit down and I'd say, So let's get cut to the chase here.

Tanja D [00:25:58]:

You're looking for a wife, and we want to have babies because that's the age range 30s late twenty s. Thirty s, right? Yeah. Okay, great. We're done. Have a great time. I'm very clear about what I want and not willing to say it the average person. I need everybody to hear this. Because you'll find out what goes wrong in your relationship takes seven years to fully reveal themselves to another person.

Deborah [00:26:26]:

Wow.

Tanja D [00:26:27]:

Seven year. Itch anybody? Seven years. When our whole body reproduces itself, right? It takes seven years for your body to get brand new. Like, to become a brand new person with all the cells and everything. I don't know if you know that, but it's kind of cool for your body to replace every cell. It's about seven years.

Deborah [00:26:44]:

Yeah, I knew that. It's funny because I hadn't thought about that in terms of relationships. Like, I always say, you need to wait at least 18 months before you have a clue who's on the other side, which is crazy because I think I read somewhere lately that most people get engaged within the first year.

Tanja D [00:27:06]:

Yeah. So statistically, if you don't get engaged so six months to 18 months is the sweet spot for a marriage lasting better, though even those marriages 50% end in divorce. Also within six months to 18 months, the love hormones are gone. So the initial love hormones you feel are six months to 18 months. It's not if they go away, they go away, and you're left with oxytocin and bonding. So there's a lot of the science and biology and chemistry that we never talk about when it comes to relationship. And I remember waking up one morning and looking at my partner and going, and there it is. That feeling is gone.

Tanja D [00:27:47]:

Wow, that's so interesting. Didn't mean the relationship was over, but a lot of people will feel that way. They've fallen out of love, but they haven't known to replace it with anything else. But yeah, seven years to reveal yourself. So I figure revealing yourself sooner than later, at least your agenda, why it is you're dating, what it is you actually want from somebody else, is pretty important. And especially if you're in an age range. Let's say you want babies and you want a family and you're in your is not time to screw around. Like, you should not be dating men that aren't on the same track or dating people that aren't on the same track as you are for that particular agenda.

Tanja D [00:28:25]:

And though it sounds like shouldn't you get to know somebody first? No, because once you engage chemistry, I tell my clients not to sleep or make out with somebody for two to three months, like, date them without getting heavy lease involved in sex. Because once your hormones are involved, you also don't make good decisions.

Deborah [00:28:45]:

And how many of them take you up on that?

Tanja D [00:28:50]:

Not usually the first time, but then when they realize they're stuck in the same pattern, then it's usually they do. So I have many clients that just and I used to do it this way. I'm like, hey, I'm really attracted to you. I feel you feeling the vibe. I don't make out with people right away. I don't plan on having sex with you for the next couple of months. And if that's a problem, you should know that. Now, exit stage left.

Tanja D [00:29:14]:

No harm, no foul, but I'm really interested in you. And because of that, I want to see what happens. Because if you don't do if you don't make out, you actually find out pretty fast if you actually like the person, not if you're in lust with the person, but you like them, you go out. How do they treat the wait staff? You go out, what do they like with animals? You're not engaged in that hormonal drive, and that makes your critical thinking a little bit more pronounced. Now, if all you're wanting to do is friends with benefits, hookups, whatever, then pick somebody that you're really high on the pheromone level with.

Deborah [00:30:00]:

Just don't talk to them.

Tanja D [00:30:01]:

Right. But then you're going to fall in love if you're more of the feminine aspect, persuasion, it's difficult to have sex, real great sex with somebody without engaging all of a sudden the other hormones that will make you want to bond with them and believe that if you have great sex they're going to change their mind. That's the other thing that doesn't happen.

Deborah [00:30:24]:

So I need you to repeat that again.

Tanja D [00:30:30]:

Which part? The thinking. Great sex is going to change somebody's mind. Yeah.

Deborah [00:30:37]:

I see this more with my friends, my girlfriends than with my clients.

Tanja D [00:30:41]:

Yeah. The reality is most of us, like I said, of the feminine persuasion, tend to believe that if we have great sex, if we're involved in great sex with somebody, they're going to see all the wonderful things that they need to see to change their mind about commitment or relationships. And I work mostly with men. I've got probably like a 75% male clientele and they will always tell you that's not the case. Men are very timing oriented when they're like they could be with somebody for five years and not pull the trigger, not get married, the one's like I don't understand, blah blah blah and then literally break up with them and six months later get married. And it has nothing to do with anything other than the timing was right. In other regards, financial career, whatever, something like that. So there's just a big discord in how we do all that.

Deborah [00:31:43]:

And what would you say to a woman who's in relationship wants to marry the guy and his timing isn't right? What would you say in terms of pass?

Tanja D [00:31:55]:

Yeah, why waste any more time? I mean, waiting for the timing to be right probably won't happen. He has assigned you as the not person he's going to marry.

Deborah [00:32:09]:

And at what point how long does that take, generally speaking, would you say.

Tanja D [00:32:14]:

Wow, that's a hard call? Depends on the age range. Decades. Wise men in their twenty s that pull the trigger on getting married usually want to have a family, right. So they're like, oh, I want a family. It's always wanted a family. Right. They're liable to get married sooner, but they're not going to be that guy that strings you along. The other guy, if he hasn't asked anybody to marry him after 26 or 27, he's got a mental subconscious, even agenda about what everything looks like.

Tanja D [00:32:43]:

And if you can get him to say that, then you'll know. Right, but not just, oh, we need to get married because nobody likes to be pressured. It's more like, hey, when you were growing up and thinking about marriage and kids, what is it that you had? Like did you have a house? Did you have that? So curious. Inquiry will tell. You. And if he's not close to that, he'll tell you all that. And he's not close to that. I wouldn't wait around for it.

Tanja D [00:33:09]:

Another thing that men do that's subconscious is if you put your person through grad school, like you meet in your help him go to school, he becomes a doctor. Now he's super successful. Chances are you'll end up not together, and he'll be with somebody who sees him as he is now, not the person who knew him as he was then. And this is not about being jerks. I adore men. This is a subconscious things that most of them aren't even aware of. But when you look at the guy that you put through school, you know him there, you're still looking at him as that guy. Some other woman sees him.

Tanja D [00:33:53]:

He's a doctor, and it's all that.

Deborah [00:33:58]:

Right? Well, it's interesting because I feel like and maybe I'm wrong on this it feels like there's two really different like, there's the men who want to build together. Then there's the men who want to have their shit together and invite you into the absolutely.

Tanja D [00:34:17]:

Absolutely. And there's quite a few men there are more men on that side because programming once again, we program men to think they have to know it all, have it all together, be the leader. My gosh, if I ever hear this whole I did a great debate with this guy named Zach Rhodey who was a hardcore men lead. They don't learn anything from women. So it was all my response. And anyway, so he challenged, threw down the gauntlet. I'll duel anybody that thinks that's not true, and you have to put this on your wall and keep it on your wall. And I'm like, Yo, let's do this.

Tanja D [00:34:53]:

Zach showed up in a princess little pink crown and whatever and mopped the floor with him. He lost 100,000 people in his following, and I gained most of them anyway. But I think that most of us are really confused men and women. And I don't think any extreme, like, men do all this and women do all this is helpful. I believe that our happiest place is when we're balancing between feminine and masculine energies. I'm a very masculine outward person in my life, and yet if I'm with a man I'm attracted to, I'm a blushing 16 year old idiot.

Deborah [00:35:42]:

I don't want to see that.

Tanja D [00:35:44]:

I know, and I'm so embarrassed by that. And men are like, oh, my God, I'm hiding behind a menu at a restaurant because I can't even speak because I'm stammering and blushing so hard, and he hasn't even said anything.

Deborah [00:36:00]:

So before you go any further, I just want to kind of make sure I understand. When you say masculine and feminine energy, what are you talking about?

Tanja D [00:36:11]:

I'm talking about nature. I'm talking about the time when things stand strong and grow. And I'm talking about the times when the wind is coming and you bow and bend and flow. I'm talking about the ability to push forward and the ability to lean back. That's the easiest way to think about it. Masculine energy is pushing forward. It's got action and direction. Feminine energy is more reflective and sitting back a little bit.

Tanja D [00:36:37]:

It doesn't mean not doing, but it means not taking up as much forward driving space. Think of penis entering, vagina receiving. Right. And it kind of just makes it easy. It's not all goddessy, oh, my gosh, that kind of thing. It's not false positivity. It's not men who take the lead and take you on the adventure of your life. And if he's not like that, you can't surrender into your feminine aspect.

Tanja D [00:37:07]:

These are spirituality and other things that are messing people up in a huge way. We want to be all aspects of our humanity. We want to be able to reflect, we want to be able to take action, and we want to be able to mirror and dance in that energy with anybody that's around us. Business, romance, children. It's a good skill set to have.

Deborah [00:37:33]:

Yeah, absolutely. I think you brought something up tangentially, which is that each relationship, if we're actually in that place, is going to be different. We may have the push with one person and the sitting back with another, and we may have that in an hour with each other. And so I think one of the things that I'm really a stand for is what is your experience of being in this person's presence and who are you in this person's presence?

Tanja D [00:38:12]:

Right, absolutely. That's kind of being in the present moment, right?

Deborah [00:38:18]:

Yeah, absolutely. I had a question. I wanted to go back. You were saying something about the guy sits down and you notice whether he's attracted to you or not. And I'm curious. So if he's not attracted to you, do you feel like you want to continue that date or that connection?

Tanja D [00:38:37]:

Or is it like, oh, it's a question I ask. If I say you're not attracted to me, I'm like, let's just be honest and real with people. And he'll be like, well, I'm not unattracted to you, but no, you're not my ideal type. Let's say a guy's super bold and he can like, I love those guys that can just lay it down. And I'm like, great. Okay. Do you feel like, is there a reason for this to go on? And it's like, oh, well, I'm attractive enough. You'd have sex with, but not so attractive that you'd want to continue dating or whatever.

Tanja D [00:39:12]:

Or just look at me and go, wow, would my winning personality win you over? But maybe you think my personality sucks too. I don't think we all have to be each other's tens. I think there's exploration that we should all have. And when I did this thing called Tantra speed dating, I put a curtain. Men would show up on one side and women would show up on the other, and they would sit with only their feet showing, and nobody got to see each other. And we would do these exercises through the curtain. And it was very surprising that when we finally took the curtain back and people mingled, that most people picked somebody that they would not have picked. And then five of the couples ended up coming to a workshop I had the next day for singles or for couples.

Tanja D [00:40:04]:

Five people coupled up and came to that workshop, which was sent, and four of them are still together. This is like a decade later.

Deborah [00:40:13]:

Is that something you've done multiple times or just the one time?

Tanja D [00:40:17]:

No, I've done it throughout. I was doing that before anybody knew about speed dating or whatever. I think my first one was in 2007. So I think we place a lot of value on physical attraction. Of course, you don't want to be unattracted to somebody, but there's so many things that go into attraction. I remember seeing a guy that I would consider the most beautiful person I've ever seen on the planet. Like, hands down. Holy, holy moly, right? But when I got near him and I heard him speak, I was totally turned off.

Tanja D [00:40:58]:

So what would be the most defining, what the most important qualities are is incredibly important, too. And people grow in attraction when they show up for you. If somebody hears you, respects you, has kindness towards you, I think their attractiveness grows. I think the idea of the friend zone is also the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Friend zoning people, guys are, like, all afraid of being friend zoned. And I'm like, dude, you're going to friend zone with me until I do something else. So don't be as scared of that. Lean into it.

Tanja D [00:41:40]:

Don't all of a sudden feel like you have to sex me up. Okay? But to close the loop on autism and dating, each person on the spectrum has their strengths and what other people would consider weaknesses, maybe even they would their disadvantages, let's say. Right? But you know that we all have disadvantages when it comes to relationships because none of us are taught how to have a good relationship, how to pick a good relationship, how to sustain a good relationship, certainly not taught a lot about sex. So if you happen to be someone who's an introvert, which I also am, which surprises people, reclusive introvert, who's shy. That's how I was when I was dating. It's awkward. I think if people were to embrace awkwardness, I think all of us would have a better chance. Dating.

Tanja D [00:42:42]:

Like dating and sex really, at the fundamental level, is awkward. The only time it's not awkward is when you're so taken away by those pheromones that you don't care if you're awkward. Like, awkward doesn't even exist in your frontal cortex anymore because you can't think, you can only feel sex. Now, mg like, that's it. That's the only part that's not awkward.

Deborah [00:43:08]:

That's so good. Well, that's actually the awkward concept is not something that is ever put forward. Like when we see sex, whether it's in the movies, whether it's more of a foreign experience, it's very fluid. It's very how does that happen?

Tanja D [00:43:33]:

How do you grab each other, you're making out, and all these clothes that have all just fall. Who does that? I've always wanted to achieve that. I've actually tried to achieve that. How does that work? You need velcro. And even then, it's like, of course, there's always the hand grasping, and everybody's always great at doing it or whatever. And this is not true for the real world. For those of you who think that the right person means seamless awesome sex every time. And sometimes you're not bored or never bored.

Tanja D [00:44:04]:

That's just not true. Sex can be boring. It can be weird. It can be awkward. It can be funny. It can be intense, intimate. I'm a texture freak in that regard. Not on my body.

Tanja D [00:44:18]:

And so if we learn to embrace all of the presence and that word, let's break down what that word means, how you're actually feeling in that moment. Things are so different. I mean, I've been making out with a guy and then said, I'm feeling kind of bored about this. How are you feeling about this activity? If sex relationships were an activity like going to the zoo, it would sound like this. Hey, Deborah, I'm feeling like going to the zoo. Are you up for the zoo?

Deborah [00:44:53]:

Yeah, I'm up for the zoo. Great.

Tanja D [00:44:56]:

So we'll go to the zoo. That's awesome. But I want to go see the.

Deborah [00:44:59]:

Zebras when you go to the zoo, because they're my favorite.

Tanja D [00:45:02]:

And now I want to go to the lions. So I guess we're going to take a moment and go separate ways or go together. But what happens?

Deborah [00:45:07]:

No, I'll go check out the lions, right?

Tanja D [00:45:11]:

You say no, and it's like you would just be like, I don't feel like going. I'm like, cool. All right, I'm going to go to the zoo. See you later. That would be the same conversation, and I taught my daughter this at an early age. Reject the activity, not the person. I'm like, Honey, I need a hug. I was testing her.

Tanja D [00:45:29]:

I need a hug. I'm on the couch. I need a hug. And she goes, Mama, I love you, and I'm rejecting the activity. And she walked away. So we're afraid. We're so afraid to have honest conversations about things, and most of us aren't in touch with our own feelings enough and our own realizations enough to have those conversations. But even safer sex, I can't tell you how many clients I have that I'm like, well, you're practicing safer sex.

Tanja D [00:46:05]:

Well, I think that well, you know what? I had a huge condom dish on my coffee table. If you made it into my house, you pretty well knew where I stood, right? Like, it's pretty clear. And I'd have the conversation. I don't want to ruin the mood. Nothing ruins like an STD. I mean, just saying.

Deborah [00:46:25]:

It's so interesting that I don't want to ruin the mood piece. So I personally hear it from women more often than men. And what I also hear is they don't want to plan any kind of sexual thing. Like, Wednesday night is date night, and.

Tanja D [00:46:43]:

Everybody waiting to be in the mood is ridiculous. Today's lifestyle is not conducive to anybody's mood. Yeah. So I with my partner once and said, hey, I always ask my couples to do 30 days of sex, so let's do 30 days of sex, see what's up. We had super high pheromone levels that you would have thought would be just great, right? Great. Let's have sex. We both are high sex drive. We both got high pheromone levels with each other.

Tanja D [00:47:10]:

Let's do this. And so that was going fine. Five days, it's going great. And then one morning, I was like, okay, let's do it this morning. He's like, okay. And we're laying there on our backs, and I'm like, so you going to start this? And he goes, I don't know. Do you want to start this? And I'm like, let's flip a coin. So we flipped a coin.

Tanja D [00:47:35]:

I mean, literally, I like to have fun in the bedroom. So we flipped a coin. He had heads. He got to start it. So he leaned over and started kissing me. And I'm like, yeah, we're both not really feeling this much this morning. And he's like, yeah, I know. He says, I got a lot on my mind about that.

Tanja D [00:47:49]:

That I'm like, okay, so why don't you just, like, why don't you just lay on top of me? We're naked. So he laid on top of I opened my leg, so he dropped it. I'm like, So does this qualify as sex? I said, we didn't really get really detailed about what qualified as sex. And he goes, I don't know. I mean, we could qualify this as sex. And I said, can you just jam it in there a little bit? We could call that sex. And so he's laughing, and I'm laughing, and it's so, like, sweet and funny that we end up having some of the best sex that we'd had in a while. Neither one of us in the mood.

Tanja D [00:48:27]:

I want you to hear that for people listening, the funny part and the intimacy of being funny and being in that together brought the mood. There was one morning when he said, I'm not doing it. And I'm like, what do you mean? And he goes, nobody's going to tell me that I have to have sex every day. I am not going to do this. Nobody's controlling what I do. And I'm like, yeah, okay, I hear you. So I hear him, and he goes, I don't know why we're doing this anyway. And I'm like, well, because we committed to it.

Tanja D [00:48:59]:

And he goes, you can't tell me when I come, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I'm not telling you anything. I'm just listening to you, right? And so then I'm like, all right, so I'm going to cuddle up to you here, and I'm going to put my hand over your penis. No sex, nothing happening. And he goes, Fine, nothing's going to happen. I'm like that's.

Deborah [00:49:15]:

Great.

Tanja D [00:49:15]:

I don't care. It's good. And then, of course, once again, we had great sex. But we wait. This idea of being in the mood, being horny, being in the mood, unless you're somebody like me who cultivates sexual energy, and I'm literally turned on 24/7, which is an art form you work to be in that for creativity and other things, not frustration. I'm never frustrated. You're not in the mood. Most women are in a sub basement.

Tanja D [00:49:43]:

They're like 100 floors down from arousal in this lifetime. And men aren't really aroused either. They're just anxious. And sex and anxiety get tied together. Orgasm medication, anybody? Yeah. When people tie ejaculation and sleep or destress together, they just want to get off. And so that isn't really arousal either. So we're all playing on some weird playing fields that aren't primal, out in nature, rutting kind of thing, when nothing else is distracting us from anything.

Deborah [00:50:22]:

So I'm curious. I want to go back to when you have your couples do 30 days of sex. Is sex defined as penis and vagina, or is sex defined as something else?

Tanja D [00:50:36]:

Well, that's individual for the couples because it depends also on if there's physical issues or medical issues or different types of things. So that's defined. But usually that's an exercise because there are 40 million sexless couples in the US. That are talking about it, right? And that's sexless with each other. Most of those are having affairs, but they're sexless with each other. So when I work with couples who are like, haven't had sex in ten years, I think it's funny because the first thing I tell them after working with them is, you can't have sex. And they always look at me and say, we haven't had sex. And I'm like, yeah, and don't have sex anyway.

Tanja D [00:51:15]:

That's usually two times in they're back to having they had sex because nobody was going to tell them what to do, right? So they banded together against me. That's great. Okay. But providing the idea of what happens when you have sex more often is that chances are you'll want sex more often. So if you're solo, I definitely say self pleasuring, which is different than masturbation self pleasuring every day, building up pleasure increases your desire and wanting to be in that space in your body. For men, I tell them to do self pleasuring without ejaculation, to keep them keen more in their senses than numbed from constant ejaculation. So to build up that sexual energy to be in that arousal space requires attention at first. But once you're there, once you're living in that you're not starting from -100 in the basement and then trying to get off.

Tanja D [00:52:16]:

Or even women can actually have orgasm without being aroused. Can train yourself to get off in 90 seconds with a very low level of arousal. And that's kind of sad. I consider that. And this will hear trigger warning. I think of that as violent orgasm. And I know that I'm sex positive, so we should be saying all orgasm is good. But I don't actually believe that because it changes the chemistry profile in your body depending on how you have an orgasm, which is a fairly new subject.

Deborah [00:52:48]:

Well again. I just want to make sure that I'm getting exactly what you're saying. And so when you say a violent orgasm, it's an orgasm where it's like they're pushing or they're forcing. And just to be clear, the difference between I use different words for climax than I would orgasm. For me, orgasm is a lot about the ride that goes everywhere. And climax is that point at which with men, it's outward ejaculation. With women, it can be outward ejaculation. But it's also that peak moment.

Deborah [00:53:28]:

And so what I'm hearing you say is that when people really push for that or that it's force it, there's a different experience than when it just.

Tanja D [00:53:42]:

Sort of emotionally, chemical, physiological. Absolutely. So by allowing pleasure to happen is different than forcing orgasm or forcing climax, as you would say it.

Deborah [00:53:56]:

Right?

Tanja D [00:53:57]:

Well.

Deborah [00:53:57]:

And it's so interesting because for a lot of my male clients, one of the things that they run into is they're not quite sure what's going on with their partner.

Tanja D [00:54:10]:

Yeah, most of the time.

Deborah [00:54:13]:

I'm kind of curious. I'm imagining. You have words of wisdom on that.

Tanja D [00:54:18]:

Well for men. Men are told that they give women orgasms. And this is not true. And nobody should be given away no woman should be given away her power like that. And no man should be under the belief that that's his job to do. If we all were taking part in our cultivating, our sexual energy in ourselves and learning about our bodies, women fall into pleasure. And so when you're in high enough pleasure, you just automatically fall over the wave. You fall over the waterfall.

Tanja D [00:54:54]:

It's not something you have to hold your breath. Squidge down. Concentrate hard on oh, my God. Oh, my God. He just missed it all. Damn. What? Are you kidding me right now? We all been there, right? No. Left.

Tanja D [00:55:09]:

Where'd he go? What? No, I mean, we've all been there. And when men are trying to give us an orgasm, there's also the energy of that. That doesn't allow us to fall into it easier. We're both focused on a goal of trying to get there, pushing it, making it happen. Women are like, it's taking too long. Men are like, holy shit, it's taking too long. Everybody's got this whole thing wrapped up around this. And so we're not in the present moment, we're not really feeling what's going on with our bodies.

Tanja D [00:55:42]:

We're making orgasm her coming and we're getting her off so that he can get off. Right. Because he's not a selfish jerk. So this whole idea that he's got to get her off so then that he can get off without feeling like an insensitive, selfish lover is crazy. What are we doing?

Deborah [00:55:59]:

Right? Well, and the other piece I want to bring in is that for a lot of women, sex is not successful unless they've seen their partner ejaculate.

Tanja D [00:56:10]:

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Like, oh, if he's not hard in Ejaculating, I must not be hot. I wasn't a good lover. Ridiculous. Ridiculous.

Deborah [00:56:21]:

Well, so in a moment, I'm going to ask you if you could give some pointers or some tips around cultivating personal sexual energy. But first I'd like to take a moment and just tell people how the Better Sex Podcast is supported and give them an opportunity to support it should they like so as we've been talking about, sex is a complicated issue and it can make or break a relationship. And unfortunately, most of us grow up in an environment where talking about sex is not welcome. And that's actually why I created the Better Sex membership. It's a place to learn about sex. It's a place to put it into action, to practice tools to become a better lover, to increase the pleasure in your relationships. So if you're bored sexually unfulfilled, you can get the support you need. So let's face it, a podcast is not enough.

Deborah [00:57:26]:

You have to have practice. If you're ready for tools, tips and exercises so that you can learn more to become a better lover, have better sex and successful relationships, please join me in the Better Sex Membership. The details are in the show notes and I would be delighted to share them with you. So on that note, I'm curious, how do you suggest that people cultivate sexual energy on their own?

Tanja D [00:57:59]:

Yeah, so for all of us, autistic, neurodivergent or not tying that bow up, we're responsible for our arousal, nobody else's. You might be aroused by somebody else, but ultimately you are responsible for your arousal. And to cultivate sexual arousal, which is actually in us 100% of the time, we dampen it because it's not appropriate. Now is not the right time, we're too stressed out, whatever it is. So it really is about unlocking that. So there's a lot required into it, like getting over the subconscious triggers and stuff. But the most essential critical way, and I know your listeners have probably heard this a lot, is Breath. And I'm going to teach everybody a breath to start getting connected to their sexual arousal.

Tanja D [00:58:58]:

When you have a down there, right, and you think about having down there, you've got a word for it you don't like or is dirty, don't talk about it, whatever. Especially women tend to then having that mindset means that basically you are disconnected from that part of your body you can't expect to be aroused. Right? That's like heart, if you're like. That critical. For men, they've got the opposite thing. They're like it's all dick centric. And so that's the opposite way usually, right? But for each, the same applies. If every day you were to put your right hand on top of, if you're a woman, your vulva.

Tanja D [00:59:40]:

So, like, if you don't want to try to cram it down between your legs. Is this a visual podcast or audio only?

Deborah [00:59:47]:

This is audio only.

Tanja D [00:59:49]:

Oh, my gosh. All right, so you're going to run your hand down your belly, and when your fingers fall off the edge of your pubic bone, you're going to stop. So it's not your whole hand shoved down, it's just the fingers dropping onto your vulva. Right? Okay. If you're a man, same thing. Hand down over your stomach, down your pubic bone. It falls across your penis. Fine.

Tanja D [01:00:10]:

That's where it stays. So one hand touching your genitals in a comfortable way, prop a pillow under your right elbow there, laying down. And then I want you to simply just breathe in this way. You're going to inhale two softly through the nose. One, two, exhale through the mouth to the count of 1234-5678. Soft, gentle, inhale, one, two, through the nose and exhale through the mouth, 1234-5678. And inhale one, two, exhale, 1234-5678. So that's how it goes.

Tanja D [01:01:07]:

Laying down naked is best. Set a timer. Five minutes. If you do that every single day. And no, you don't need to titillate yourself or rouse yourself. What if I get hard? What if I get this? Ignore that. This is not masturbation. This is literally building a relationship between the narcissistic mind that most of us have and our poor body who wants some love.

Tanja D [01:01:35]:

We are changing this dynamic between the critical harsh thinking and our disconnected brains and our body. Who is saying, I'm here and I actually want to do some of this stuff? Okay, might sound silly, seem weird. I suggest even if you get aroused, you don't masturbate after that. That's its own little container. That five minutes is a container. Give it a couple of hours between then and whatever you do next. And also, don't fantasize. I'm actually probably one of the few sex positive people that says no porn, no fantasy.

Tanja D [01:02:12]:

If you want to build sexual arousal of your own, need an outward stimulus. But you've trained yourself to need an outward stimulus. So for this practice, we would just be concentrating on the breath and just being there with the body and noticing what's come up. I'm bored, Tanya. I got it. I hear you. It's okay. Just be bored, but do it anyway.

Tanja D [01:02:33]:

Five minutes, seven days a week. Do it from now until you hear from me again or you drop dead from some other thing, but just do it every day, you'll be surprised.

Deborah [01:02:44]:

That's so good. And I love the piece around being there, whether you're bored, whether you're turned on, whether just being there. Because, as you said, sometimes we have moments in the middle of sex where it's like the grocery list comes up. And then this is a way to bring the attention back to the genitals and back to what's happening in the present moment.

Tanja D [01:03:10]:

Or your ears or your brain or your vision or all the senses that light you up that are full of arousal that we just don't pay attention to. Yeah.

Deborah [01:03:20]:

So clearly we don't have nearly enough time to talk because I could imagine ten more conversations. But I do want to know, what are you up to these days? Where's your passion these days?

Tanja D [01:03:32]:

Oh, it's always sex. I mean, I've got a couple of podcasts out, men's Sex and Tantras out there that's really living large. A lot of people are really loving that. And I just got done with my TEDx, and I just coached twelve speakers to a different TEDx, and I've got my own TEDx event coming up. Like, I'm putting one on in October. So being that polymath that I am, lots of things happening. But if you want to know anything about me, it's really easy if you can spell my name right. T-A-N-J-A diamond.

Tanja D [01:04:06]:

I take up 20 pages of Google easily, so you can always find some way to find me. T-A-N-J-A diamond facebook is kind of my jam. I know I'm going to start doing like my daughter told me. I'm not too old to do it, so on the TikTok bandwagon. But in the meantime, I'm out there, you can find me. And I always appreciate being able to give value to people's, audiences, and I love what you're doing. Thank you for doing it. And you guys, membership, you heard that? Get involved in the membership for sure, yeah.

Deborah [01:04:41]:

Thank you so much for your time, for your energy. Again, my guest, Tanya Diamond, you can find her on one of 20 pages of Google Facebook. Soon to be on TikTok. She's got a podcast of her own, Men Sex and Tantra. Did I get that right?

Tanja D [01:05:01]:

And Tantra loves sex and intimacy, so.

Deborah [01:05:03]:

I have two beautiful we didn't even get to dive into half the interesting conversations that are possible, so hopefully you'll join me again sometime. But in the meantime, please, so thank you so much for your time and your energy, and thank you all for listening. Please follow on social media, like subscribe and comment. And if you feel like you know somebody who needs to hear the wisdom that we shared today, please share this podcast with them. And on that note, have a sexy day and a sexy world, and I look forward to the. Next, podcast.