Fear, Vulnerability & Intimacy with Emily Orum

In this episode of The Better Sex Podcast, I talk with Bodyworker, Sexual Pioneer, Sound Healer, Dominatrix, and Visionary Craniosacral Practitioner, Emily Oren. Emily reflects on patterns of being absorbed into relationships and how that led to learning important insights on boundaries, self-intimacy and vulnerability.  She deep dives into what boundaries are, exploring your personal boundaries and expressing them in healthy ways.  During this conversation, we talk about vulnerability, self-intimacy, physical pleasure and slowing down to explore emotional intimacy.  Along the way, we hear a bit about Emily’s journey as a model, artist, singer, and storyteller as we chat about women’s tendency to neglect themselves, especially women who are ambitious in their life.  This is a rich conversation covering so many deep topics, and of course, Emily gives us some practices from her Heart Ninja toolbelt to deepen our self-intimacy.

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Website: www.theheartninja.com

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INSTA: www.instagram.com/the.heart.ninja

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In our commitment accessibility, help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. The transcription is far from perfect, and in some cases quite amusing. As we grow edited transcripts are on the list in the meantime please enjoy.

Deborah [00:00:03]:

And welcome to the Better Sex Podcast. My name is Deborah Kat, and I am your shameless host. This is the Better Sex Podcast, where we have unfiltered conversations about sex and relationships. We talk about the many possibilities of sex and relationships to help you figure out what works for you so that you can have better sex on your terms. I truly believe that a sexy world creates a happier and a safer world. If you want to do your part in creating a safe and sexy world, please hit like subscribe and leave a comment wherever you listen to your podcast. Today we are going to dive into the world of my guest, Emily Oren, the Heart Ninja. They are a pioneer and expert of sexual self mastery, intimacy, love, and personal empowerment.

Deborah [00:01:07]:

She is a model, artist, singer, and storyteller, and embraces and holds the vision of a world of radical acceptance, inclusion, harmony, belonging, and celebration of each other's differences. She aims to empower each individual to own their authentic, truth sex design and create their own unique love style. Her Heart Ninja tool belt is extensive, embodying the tools of emotional somatic and erotic intelligence, codependence recovery, and over 15 years of therapeutic practices, she's achieved numerous certifications and a range of skills and gifts as a body worker, sexual pioneer, sound healer, dominatrix, visionary, and craniosacral practitioner. I am delighted to have you here on the podcast with me. She is a new acquaintance, but somebody that I followed on Facebook and Instagram for quite some time. So I'm quite delighted to have this in person conversation with you. Welcome, Emily. I'm curious, like, how did you get here? Why sex and intimacy?

Emily O [00:02:32]:

Wow. Well, first of all, Deborah, it's such a joy to be here and always like, oh, my God, that's me. As I hear my wait, I want to hang out with her. Oh, shit, that's me. Wow. So I got here, I would say, because I didn't have good modeling as a kid. I'd had a lot of trauma. I grew up with a lot of alcoholism and addiction with my parents and poor fighting and all the toxic kind of dynamics of codependency and narcissism, which was modeled in my upbringing.

Emily O [00:03:11]:

And I always was this love being. I always had so much love. I was a healer, of course. Then I took on the archetype of the rescuer. That was unhealthy. And I wanted to help the world, I wanted to fix, I wanted to share love. And I didn't have the skills, I didn't have the appropriate skills that were truly what I needed inside of my heart. And I needed to go through all of the shadow aspects and not knowing how to speak my needs, not knowing about boundaries, how do I understand what's under dysfunction and transform it? And also, I think, just feeling different.

Emily O [00:03:54]:

I always felt like I could love multiple people. My sexuality was always very open. I was very much like I would just feel things on my skin. My sexuality was very open. I had neighbors where we would touch and explore intimacy in a very innocent way. And I was like, Why are people not doing this? Why is this not more normal? We should be touching. We should be connecting. And everything around me is so dysfunctional.

Emily O [00:04:24]:

So basically, kind of coming out of that paradigm and also coming into, I am different. The way I love different is different. The way that I want to express my sexuality is different than the conditioning, the modeling of what I've been taught. So it's been a journey to basically get back to my true self and to learn the skills and the tools that were not provided for me in childhood.

Deborah [00:04:52]:

Thank you. So what I'm hearing is that you are just naturally come from the heart and have this desire for intimacy, for touching, for connection, and didn't see that reflected back to you in a way that was healthy. And so it sounds like it's been quite a journey to unwind and to really step into the difference of who you are.

Emily O [00:05:24]:

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, what a journey. And I can honestly say I'm 41 now, and I've been working consciously on everything since 26. Really? When I hit 40, it was like a kind of a feeling of a big solidification. I feel like we're always on a growth path until the day we die, as we are waking up and becoming our true self and coming into our power. But there was this, like, oh, I'm good with who I am. Now I'm good with who I am. I'm getting better at standing up for myself.

Emily O [00:05:59]:

I'm feeling better about approaching conflict. Whereas before it was so terrifying because I was scared of loss. And so I'm aware of my patterns, and they don't run me as much. I'm not gripped by them because I've been working on myself for so long, and there's less shame that's like, oh, my God, I'm fucked up. I can't share this about myself or I'm wrong, so I have to hide. And now there's more like, I have issues like all humans, but the shadow, it doesn't run my life. Right. It's not holding a grip.

Emily O [00:06:34]:

The trauma is not holding me back in a large way. I feel more free. I feel more free to be me whole. And it took a while, it took a dang while to get here.

Deborah [00:06:45]:

Well, and I'm so curious, can you describe what the moment was or the moments where you're like, oh, I'm actually me, and that's a good thing?

Emily O [00:06:58]:

Wow. Yeah. I think doing a lot of work, ideally, on my abandonment wound, like, getting okay to be one. Okay. I was in a lot of relationships that were not configured properly or that were not really committed to growth to the degree that I was. And so it ended up breaking down in some way or another. And then I usually would have to leave those relationships. And it was really hard for me to do that, which then set up a pattern of like and then I would jump into other relationships after that.

Emily O [00:07:37]:

So it was hard for me to be on my own and trust that I was lovable and safe and okay on my own. So there was reconciling that abandonment wound, right? And then being okay. The deeper abandonment wound is like, it's okay to be me. It's okay. I love me. No matter how I run my energy or who I am doesn't work for another person. If I have to set boundaries and let go of somebody or not develop a deeper relationship with them sexually or romantically, I'm okay. I won't change myself.

Emily O [00:08:13]:

I love myself. And that was the deeper flex of like, can I know that I'm okay regardless of what goes on outside of me, regardless of if I have a partner or regardless if someone likes me, regardless if someone says no. Or reacts in a certain way to how I run my energy and sex, love and intimacy. At the end of the day, can I feel good about myself? And I think that deeper self love piece was a journey to really, over and over again go like, I'm not bad, I'm not wrong. I love me. I know that I'm going to be okay and be on my own and also that I can find my community. It's a big one, is like, I can find people. Even though my relationships might change forms, right.

Emily O [00:09:03]:

Maybe like a main partnership or a romantic or a sexual part of a relationship changes form is that I know that I can go to a set of friends and a community that accepts me, that supports me, where there's resources about open relating or resources about open relating or non monogamy that are supportive. That's a really big piece.

Deborah [00:09:29]:

Absolutely. Having the kinds of love and relationships that we want to either embody just because of who we are or strive to embody. Community can be a really big part of how we not only know we're on the right track, but having a good community, having somebody who's willing to say to you, babe, you might be stepping off the path.

Emily O [00:09:58]:

Come.

Deborah [00:09:58]:

On back, I think is a really important that's a really important part of healthy living, I think, is having that kind of accurate reflection.

Emily O [00:10:12]:

Absolutely. And also not. I think my pattern in the past and maybe your viewers can relate to this, is getting into a very bonded relationship and making your life about that partnership where you start to notice that you're isolated, your friendships have waned, you might not be developing your other passions outside the relationship or maybe everything is about that relationship. Like, I created businesses with my partnerships and would become overly enmeshed. So this topic around boundaries, like having healthy boundaries within partnership, like having other friendships and relationships, whether you're non monogamous or not sorry. Monogamous or non monogamous is really having those healthy boundaries and having a constellation of hearts. I call it like friendships and other passions and things outside of your relationship that will ultimately strengthen you and then hopefully strengthen the relationships that you have.

Deborah [00:11:16]:

Absolutely. So one of the things a couple of things I want to just highlight there, and one is I just want to riff off of what you're talking about about sometimes I often see, especially my women friends, they want to be part of the community. They want to have fun, they want to be in a group, and then they get a partner and then all of a sudden they disappear until there's problems reemerge. So that's what I see with my women friends, with my male friends. What I see is they rarely have a solid male community that holds them in a way that is healthy. Oftentimes they'll have the guy friends that are not necessarily there's just a lot of fronting going on where it's like it's not an authentic experience. So they're sort of pushing their personas versus their hearts.

Emily O [00:12:21]:

Right.

Deborah [00:12:22]:

Not all men. There are some amazing men out there doing really great work, holding each other, supporting each other, giving them good advice about women. Just like there's some women out there giving each other good advice about men. But I want to bring that back to we started to talk a little bit about boundaries. And first of all, I would love it if you could kind of break down when you're talking about boundaries. What do you mean by that?

Emily O [00:12:53]:

Yeah, I love that because this is such a nuanced conversation. What is a boundary? When is a boundary maybe coming from fear? When is it coming from love? And I think that's an important delineation. But boundaries ultimately are created to serve, honor and protect us, the individual. It's not about inflicting rules or control on other people. It's really about like your boundaries are cultivated and created by knowing. And this is the piece, what your truth is, what your values are, what's important to you emotionally, spiritually beliefs, like spirituality. There's a lot of different areas where we might need to set boundaries around different things with touch, with our emotions, with some of our values that are important to us. So we can't really authentically know what our boundaries are unless we know what our truth is and what our values are.

Emily O [00:13:55]:

And then once we get clear about what our truth needs and values are, the boundary is literally kind of that it's the moat around or you could say the gate around the castle that's really like this is a sense of this is what holds me and my house safe. This is what holds my values and protects my place, my body, what's important to me. That's the first piece. And then boundaries are also something that modulate and change. They can shift and change. They're not fixed. They're not like, this is my anchor, and this is the way it is. That's often indicating that there's a block and a wall.

Emily O [00:14:36]:

So understanding the difference between blocks and walls and boundaries blocks and walls come from fear that often are stopping what we truly want. They're not serving maybe ultimately what's in our highest and best good boundaries are in service to ultimately what's in our highest and best good. And that's a continual dance to check in, right? Like, is this really serving me? Do I feel safe now. And am I ready to open up now physically or emotionally to this person? What might I need to be able to do that? Or like, actually, I'm not open to have a further conversation here with this person, or I'm not available to be more physical with this person in this way.

Deborah [00:15:32]:

So I just love when you said there's walls. I didn't catch the other word, but anyway, when there's blocks, walls and blocks thank you. What popped into my head is, like, sometimes we set boundaries for ourselves, actually. Sometimes we set walls for ourself out of fear, and we actually don't get to express ourselves. Truly, if we're behind our wall or if we're behind our block, that almost seems more of a hiding versus exploring a boundary of, like, oh, well, where is the place between you and I? Where is the place that you and I meet? Where is the place that you and I don't meet? And so I'm wondering if you could speak to that difference there.

Emily O [00:16:25]:

Yeah, for instance, I tend to work with a lot of boss babes that are maybe overly boundaried, where they're like, when you said this, this doesn't work for me, the way that you said this to me doesn't work. And there's just this very hard edge setting, like, trying to assert a boundary. And what I tend to do is for people like that that are very protective and very assertive right away, is to step back and to be like, okay, what truly is going on within? Are you scared? Are you feeling hurt? What are the deeper feelings that are going on for you? And then their flex is like, how do you feel about being vulnerable to that person? Like, hey, I'd love to share something you said to me, hurt my feelings, and I'd like to be able to share what came up for me. Do you see the difference there? Rather than what you said didn't work for me in that way. Right. So there may be a boundary that she has, and the approach is, how can I approach opening my heart? Right. Which is scary. Right? It's scary because that person might reject me, that person might not receive me well.

Emily O [00:17:40]:

And the flex is, can you be okay with that? While also being vulnerable and then ideally coming to the boundary, like this certain word or the way that you approach me with this certain languaging or the way that you came off. I would love to request a mindfulness of that languaging when you speak to me. So it might be like a request or in a way the languaging didn't work for me, a boundary. Right. But do you see how the difference.

Deborah [00:18:13]:

Of approach I can totally feel the difference. It's so interesting. I really got the feeling of just the difference of the words where it's like and that's the difference between having the wall up and it's like energy going out and then exactly. You can't see this people, but basically we've got the talk to the hand look going on versus a softer allowing. And you use the word flex a couple of times and I'm imagining that's an Emily word.

Emily O [00:18:52]:

Well, it seems to be coming a word, I think I said it recently again. And the flex is like, what's my growth, what what's the area that I can own that is maybe my vulnerability? And it's a growth edge. It's something for me to step into that's ultimately going to be of service to what I want in my life that's ultimately going to be in service to stepping me toward my power. So for instance, when I'm working with boss babes, what they ultimately usually come to me for is they do want surrendered love. They want to be able to open up and receive and relax and be led. And yet they've been hurt. They don't know how they've been vulnerable and taken advantage of or they're just like, yeah, there's a lot of hurt and pain at the past. There's some abandonment stuff.

Emily O [00:19:44]:

So there's a lot of walls up around their heart. So the flex for them is like, okay, honey, part of that is going to be learning to surrender and open up and be vulnerable and messy. And I know that's terrifying for you and it's going to get you the love and the connection you ultimately want. And while also giving you the discernment, this is what helps boss babes. It's going to give you also the discernment of people that are not going to be able to meet you there. So that boss babes still know that they can have that discernment, have those boundaries, have that awareness that they are safe. That's what boss babes need. They need to know that they can have their safety about them, that their boundaries, they can assert their boundaries and that makes sense while also lowering the wall and being messy and being vulnerable and letting love in.

Deborah [00:20:38]:

So good. So how would I know if I was a boss babe?

Emily O [00:20:44]:

So boss babes again, what I want to do is take off and I also work with nice guys. Nothing about those terms are bad or wrong, okay? They're like any archetype. There's light sides and there's shadow sides. So boss babes are givers. Powerful leaders, often feminine, identified women that are out there, that are wielding their power out in making the world a better place. They have big energy. They often have been called too much, they're a little feisty. They can often sometimes have an inner bitch that they don't like that can come out.

Emily O [00:21:28]:

They have sometimes control issues and also caretaking like they are caregivers, right? They often can have children or they want to give. And the shadow side can be that they lose themselves, that they abandon their own pleasure, that they abandon their own intimacy, life in the name of being a great boss, right, being a great leader. And also often providing for the children.

Deborah [00:21:56]:

If they have I love that. So again, what I'm hearing is the boss babe has got the wall around that inner heart, that inner, that caretaker, that giver, but needing to, either actually needing to or not knowing another way through. It's like our culture basically for women sweeping generality here. But for the most part, what we see is we either see these incredibly powerful women or we see the incredibly supportive women. And so it's like trying to find the authentic connection between both of those archetypes and what is actually real.

Emily O [00:22:49]:

Yeah. And what is supportive and healthy. It's like, I often will work with boss babes and they're great at showing up for others. And then I ask them, I'm like, when was the last time you took yourself out on a date? When was the last time you took a nice bath and relaxed or really did something nice for yourself? And they're like, that's what somebody else does once I get in a relationship or I don't have time for that. And a lot of stuff that has walls and blocks, again, walls and blocks. To actually have them be able to come into their femininity, be able to come into the beauty and the power of their relaxation and their pleasure. Because that's the first step, is like, first of all, they have to come in and re embody their own pleasure and re embody their own feminine. And then the next step is and do that inner work for their inner feminine and inner child.

Emily O [00:23:49]:

And then the next step is like, how do I now take this and how do I bring this now into relationship?

Deborah [00:23:56]:

So it sounds like what you're saying is the starting point is that inner relationship and turning that incredible power of that incredible ability to caretake. To caretake. The inner child.

Emily O [00:24:13]:

That's it. I say the inner child and the inner queen already. I'm like, look, your boss babe and your provider energy is super powerful externally. And now what we have to do is flip the script and have that go toward you. That's the first step, right? And it's hard. It's really hard. And talking about pleasure practices, I help a lot of women coming into finding their own sexuality and coming to the mirror and touching their bodies or learning to bring in and utilize toys and that kind of thing. And I ask them, I'm like, how was your practice? And they're like, I didn't do it, or five minutes, and I just walked away.

Emily O [00:24:59]:

I couldn't do it. And this is really hard because women often when you come into being self in your self intimacy, you face your vulnerability, right? You face your vulnerability with yourself. And that's the first step, right, is first, ideally. How do you feel about your body? How do you feel about your own pleasure? How do you feel about arousing yourself and giving yourself spaciousness and time? And do you like your body? Do you feel good in your sexuality? Do you feel good in your expression? And a lot of times it's like, no, I don't. And then there's the avoider. So then you avoid, and part of the work is leaning through that discomfort right, toward the thing that you want. And then the more that they get good at that as like, a self intimacy practice is then like, all right, babe, we're going to have you get out, and let's get you out and get you dating. Let's get you dating.

Emily O [00:25:53]:

And now working with the other elements of like, okay, how do I be vulnerable? How do I express myself? All this stuff, the intimacy stuff.

Deborah [00:26:02]:

Well, I want to go back for just a second because I just think that's such a confronting question for many women about how do you feel about your body and then how do you feel living in your body? Because sometimes those can actually be two different questions and two different answers. But I'm kind of curious, how do you work with those questions?

Emily O [00:26:31]:

Wow, I'm just getting chills all over my body just thinking about those two questions. I think, again, first of all, is being aware of the questions and then going in and confronting them. So I tend to have women do some mirror work where they derobe or they spend time really feeling their naked body, like looking at themselves in the mirror and noticing the stories that come up and being with themselves and how noticing if there's a lot of criticism or self talk or the patterns that are coming up. And how do you lean into that with more love? How do you lean into creating a healthy self concept, no matter what your body looks like? And demolishing all those the comparison stories of what is beautiful and what will a partner like and all those that conditioning of what we're inflicted on and really, no matter your shape, no matter your size, no matter the way that you look, is like, can you come into a loving relationship with your body? And the same thing is too with if you're queer, can you come into a loving relationship with being pansexual or bisexual or the fact that you feel you might look very feminine, but you want to express more masculine, and you don't feel okay with that. Instead of shaming that part of you, instead of hiding that part of you, can you create permissions for that part of you and a loving relationship with that part of you?

Deborah [00:28:12]:

Love that. And it sounds like as you're talking, it sounds like, really that first step of unwinding and being in the relationship is actually sort of stepping away from this is all the conditioning. Meaning, yes, this is a feminine body, but there's a masculine core to it, and how do those two exist in the same place?

Emily O [00:28:45]:

And it's a big one. So right now, I've had a lot of kind of been in some communities where I felt shamed, and this is the way to be more feminine and spiritual. And you're wounded in this area when I would be very kind of masculine and assertive. And I do have a very strong kind of, like, what I call cock energy. And there was like, oh, that's bad. There's something wrong with me. I need to change that to be more feminine. And a big part of my healing was like, no, I have a really strong masculine, and he's hot, he's sexy, he's beautiful.

Emily O [00:29:26]:

And he's also felt that he's bad or wrong in some way. And so, for instance, a practice for me. And this feels vulnerable, but this is the Better Sex podcast. So, bam, here it is. It's all about being vulnerable, baby. So this is my vulnerable truth is I've bought various masculine wigs. Obviously, I have really long hair, but putting on wigs, I have facial hair. So putting on facial hair, like how my masculine wants to dress up, and then also putting a strap on on and feeling like, what is it like just to walk around the house with my cock on? What is it like know? I had a photo shoot recently dressing know, as a man, and that was a big flex for me coming into my sexual expression.

Emily O [00:30:15]:

And then my photographer was like, all like, next photo shoot. Let's go to the club. Let's bring Carlos was the persona. Let's bring Carlos out to the club. And I was like, I don't think I'm ready for that. I was like, this edge of like, wow, yeah, I'm bringing out my masculine. I feel like I'm owning this part of me, and I hit kind of an edge. And so I feel like that's maybe right now, it's like a bit of a boundary.

Emily O [00:30:43]:

And I feel that maybe my next flex is to lower the boundary and to explore coming out into that expression and being seen in it. And no matter what people say, like, oh, my God, that's fake facial hair. She's really not whatever. It's like, even if people judged me or said all the things, fuck it. This is about my freedom of expression.

Deborah [00:31:06]:

So good. A couple of things I want to go back to. First of all, I got total chills when you were talking about really dressing up and owning that part of you. One of my teachers talks a lot about how we often don't have a good sense of our inner masculine or our inner feminine. And so really getting to know that part of us is really important because it often reflects who and what we look for in the outside world. As many of our practices.

Emily O [00:31:40]:

What is.

Deborah [00:31:41]:

Inside is often reflected outside. But then I wanted to go back to just like, how do you know the difference between this is a boundary that just needs to be here and this is something that I need to flex.

Emily O [00:31:57]:

Flex? Yeah. Wow. So it comes back to our values. For instance, Carlos, one of my masculine personas, coming out and going to the club and being more public. I have a value for freedom of self expression and authenticity and owning myself no matter what people say or think of me. Now, that's my value. And I have a threshold with that. I have an area where I'm like, I'm not quite ready to fully go out and be public in these ways.

Emily O [00:32:34]:

I don't have necessarily maybe the strength and courage yet built up in me and that's like, there's nothing bad or wrong about me. And so I think, again, maybe a flex would be instead of going to the club, carlos walks down the street and goes outside and walks around in public for ten minutes. And I share that too. Like when we go to play parties or when we're exploring our sexuality, it's like this idea of what's the next edge for you? Instead of going to a play party and fully if you've never been open before or had sex with multiple people, you're not just going to jump right in. It's like, what's the next step? Right. So that you're opening like, wow, that was an edge for me. And that was something I was expanding into without fully putting you past a boundary or blowing you into trauma or now I'm at the club and I'm like, I shouldn't be here. And I could always leave, right? I could always make that decision to leave.

Emily O [00:33:46]:

And it's like, for me, it's like what I call edging in. Like, how do we edge in to expanding out of our comfort zone instead of being like, there's no fucking comfort zone.

Deborah [00:34:01]:

God, that's so me in my twenty.

Emily O [00:34:03]:

S. And a lot of people, regardless of age too, go really go into that.

Deborah [00:34:09]:

Yeah. I work with a lot of couples that are looking to open up and one of the suggestions I make is go to a party. There's a lot of swinger parties in my area, so I'll send them to a swinger party with the instructions of going to just be in the energy yes. Before they do anything else. Just go and be. In the energy, and then we can negotiate, like, well, what felt really good about it? What felt not so good about it? Could you imagine yourself doing this? Could you imagine yourself doing that? So starting with this idea, going back to boundaries, it's like the first part of it is what do you envision it to be? Now, granted, things we think about, we fantasize, we plan, and it looks nothing like the reality, right? But just allowing ourselves the fantasy of or even the visceral experience of sometimes I'll have people just really close their eyes and try to feel or imagine what something might feel like. What would it feel like to have two women holding you, or one woman kissing you and another one going down on you? Or what would it feel like to have two men holding you? Just starting with the fantasy and the visceral experience, and sometimes the fantasy is enough.

Emily O [00:36:06]:

That's so huge. And I think that's a really important piece is, like, to start welcoming the invitation of whatever it is that you might desire. Start welcoming it in, like, on the fantasy realm, start doing the inner work around it. And then what's kind of the edging in what's the next step so that you're basically, what I say is titrating your nervous system so that your system is like, oh, wow, that was scary, and I made it through that, or I recognized I was okay even though I was super scared. So it's building that muscle up. It's like anything when you go to the gym. If you're new to the gym, you don't go pick up 50 pound weights and start doing squats. Or Gabriella Cordova, someone I really respect, who sex positive, does a lot of work in the Sex Positive movement.

Emily O [00:37:01]:

And she says if you've never swam before, you don't go to a pool and jump in the deep end. You first go and be like, wow, that's a swimming pool, and I have a desire to swim, and I've never swam before, and, okay, well, let's just go look at the pool. And then the next step be like, okay, well, maybe I'll put my foot in it, maybe I'll dangle my feet in, and then next step might be, I'm going to put some floaties on and go around the ring. I know this sounds like very but when you're a beginner at something, you want to work with your system and your body so that you're ideally not creating trauma, but edging into an experience so that your body's feeling safe to continue to open into it.

Deborah [00:37:47]:

Yeah. And as you say that, I think to myself, it's like for so many of us, we're beginners at positive relationships. We're beginners at authentically relating to each other, and we're beginners at different kinds of like, if we have the sort of beginner's mind for sexuality and pleasure, we have a lot more.

Emily O [00:38:19]:

There'S just.

Deborah [00:38:20]:

A lot more openness. There's a lot more things or places to explore. And I think sometimes, especially those of us who've done a lot, it can feel like, oh, it needs to be bigger and better. And actually that's not necessarily true. It's like sometimes coming back to that very vulnerable, very less well, the word that pops into my head is performative, but that's not exactly what I mean. But the the less the less explosions and the more, you know, the more like well, what happens in this three inches of skin? What can I feel here? Or how can I rediscover this part of my body that I think I know what it's supposed to feel like and I think I know what it's capable of and how can I be surprised and open to that?

Emily O [00:39:23]:

Well, just speaking that and a vulnerable, I guess, flex for me right now is actually slowing down the sexual energy upon meeting somebody, I've been someone where it's very easy for me to just go barreling in and take off our clothes and start going into primal play and with consent and let's move energy and move in. And I'm noticing that my pleasure is increasing as I'm going slower and I'm exploring more energetic connection as I'm really getting to know that person a little bit more as I'm again, the foreplay when we're in a dance of connection, there's so much foreplay that's possible, right? Like teasing, affirmations, talking about what we'd like to do to each other without taking off our clothes yet or sharing vulnerable truths about what's challenging, like emotional intimacy. Being able to lay side by side and just gently sort of touch in ways that aren't like full on massage, but that are just very light and there's a lot of sexual range, a lot of possibility for exploring our sexuality. And what I'm noticing is as I'm going into more of these emotional and lighter ways of exploring sensuality and sexuality, my pleasure is actually increasing. It's been a really beautiful thing to be like, wow, this thing that I thought was just me of just going in and being super sexual right away, that's just who I am. I'm like, wait, okay, yeah, I can naturally do that. And what if I start to slow down and there was a whole nother layer of what could make my pleasure even better if I actually moved into the subtle.

Deborah [00:41:20]:

So good. In a moment, I'm going to ask you to answer the question what would be one thing that you would want somebody who's listening to get out of our conversation? But I'm going to take a moment. So before that, I'm going to take a moment and just let people know how they can support the Better Sex podcast. Because as you can tell, I am super passionate about sex, about relationships, and about people having better sex and satisfying relationships. And unfortunately, most of us don't grow up in an environment where talking about it is welcome. And that's why I created the Better Sex membership. It's a place to learn about and to put into action practical tools to become a better lover and increase the pleasure of your relationships. So if you're bored or sexually unfulfilled, you can get the support you need.

Deborah [00:42:24]:

Let's face it, a podcast is not enough. You need practice. And if you're ready for tools and tips and exercises, then you can learn more about the Better Sex Membership. The details are at the website Debracat.com, and you can also find out more about the details in the show notes. So now that I've given you a moment to ponder the question, I'm curious. So if there's one thing you want people to walk away from our conversation, what might that be?

Emily O [00:43:02]:

Your vulnerable truth. Is your superpower, as scary as it is of the fears that you have around it, that you'll be shamed or made wrong or rejected or lose love. That ultimately, no matter what happens externally, that you know that your vulnerable truths, that your vulnerable heart is the gift. And that's the superpower to continue, that I say to continue to develop and to continue to have the courage and strength inside yourself to express.

Deborah [00:43:40]:

So good. I love that.

Emily O [00:43:43]:

And ultimately that will bring in a lot of ways, more love to you. We often feel scared that we're not going to be met if we open up and share our truth or our heart. And learning how to do it is one thing. In a way, that what is really vulnerable, what invites connection, what's surrendered vulnerability and vulnerable ownership and the love that we usually will get and the connection and even the levels of sexual arousal that will happen as a result is more than the fear that we're scared of. That has been my experience over and over again and this has been very hard for me, like, oh, it's not okay to express this, it's not okay to share this, it's bad or I'm going to hurt them, or all these fears. Then what we do is we're like, we change ourself, we hide, we disconnect and then all the toxic stuff that can happen in relationship, right? So the connection that we'll gain from being having the courage to be vulnerable is greater than the loss or the disconnection that we oh, so good.

Deborah [00:45:01]:

Thank you so much. Emily, how can people find available what are you available for? These.

Emily O [00:45:11]:

OOH, I like that. What are you open and available for? Well, first of all, I'm really active on Facebook and Instagram, so you can find me at the Heart Ninja. And it's so funny, I met someone yesterday at Harbin and they're like, so how can I find you? I'm like, I'm the heart know. So you're probably not going to remember Emily, orum but you might remember the Heart Ninja, so you can find me on there. And I have a lot of content on there. My superpower is as a coach and a mentor is being very vulnerable and authentic and being the Heart Ninja, essentially breaking the barrier that I'm the coach, I'm the one that knows what I am doing. And yeah, I have a series of tools and skills and I share my vulnerable process. Right now in my private woman's group, I'm sharing how I've been dating someone and I'm about to set a boundary and it's really terrifying for me and my process around it.

Emily O [00:46:11]:

So you get to see some of my messiness and my humanness and I break that barrier and help people feel loved and empathy and that we're all in this together. So that's a big part of how I work, even privately is very like we're an intimate relationship. So that's two ways to find me on Instagram and Facebook. You can find me on Threads too, but I'm not really as much active on there. And then also if you like my content, if you feel compelled to work with, know I have again that private Facebook group specifically for Feminine identified and I do group programs. I'm not offering anything right now. I just finished a group program. But if you are interested in working on one on one privately, the best way is to DM me on socials.

Emily O [00:47:02]:

But you can also send me a message on my website, which is theheartninja.com.

Deborah [00:47:08]:

Okay, Beautiful so available for one on one coaching private Facebook group and find you on Instagram and Facebook. And it sounds like the website as.

Emily O [00:47:26]:

Well is allheart Ninja thehartninja.com yeah, and I'm pretty up to date on social. So if you're like, okay, what is the Heart Ninja offering? You'll find out if you follow me on Stories. I'm pretty active on there. So if you're looking for a group program or something like that or that's more of like a community based offering, or if you're like, I need help or I need support or I want to go to the next level in my sex and intimacy, then that's where private coaching might really step in for somebody that's interested.

Deborah [00:47:58]:

Beautiful so you've got it. Follow the Heart Ninja on all the Socials and hit her up in the DMs for some incredibly powerful advice and support. And thank you again for being a guest here on the Better Sex podcast. And if you liked this episode, please do your part. And if you know somebody who could use some Heart Ninja ness, please send them this podcast and like subscribe and comment wherever you get your podcast episodes. Thank you so much.

Emily O [00:48:46]:

Thank you everybody.