Liberating Erotic Shadows with Adam Chacksfield
In this episode of The Better Sex Podcast, I talk with Spiritual Teacher, Adam Chacksfield who takes us on a journey through spiritual healing and transformation of Erotic Shadows through his unique work combining non-duality and somatic practices. Adam discusses how shadow work can empower individuals to embrace their desires, set boundaries, and break free from shame stories, particularly with our erotic turn-ons and fantasies. Along the way, we hear about Adam's journey through inner transformation, exploration of the relationship between eroticism and spirituality, and development of his method for healing shadow. Adam's insights on embracing and exploring shadow aspects as a path to empowerment and connection make for a deep and intriguing discussion on embracing the full spectrum of human experience in sex and relationships.
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In our commitment accessibility, help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts. The transcription is far from perfect, and in some cases quite amusing. As we grow edited transcripts are on the list in the meantime please enjoy.
Deborah [00:00:08]:
All right, welcome, everybody. Welcome to the Better Sex podcast. My name is Deborah Kat, and I am your shameless host. This is the better Sex podcast, where we have unfiltered conversations about sex and relationships. These conversations are very spicy and often get quite explicit, so they may not be appropriate for all ages. So please listen with caution. I truly believe that a sexy world creates a happier and a safer world. If you want to do your part to create a safe and sexy world, please hit, like, subscribe and comment wherever you get your podcast.
Deborah [00:00:53]:
I am very excited for our guest and our conversation today. I am speaking with Adam, who is devoted to empowering people to live inside consciousness, love and desire, rather than shame and fear. He leads transformational retreats and workshops in North America, Europe, and coaches individuals and couples. Adam facilitates with embodied authenticity, love and clarity. So I'm going to start by inviting him to pronounce his last name. I got a little nervous there, so I didn't do it. Adam, welcome to the podcast.
Adam [00:01:35]:
Thank you, Deborah. My last name is Chaxfield. Adam.
Deborah [00:01:39]:
Yeah, thank you. So I'm, you know, today's topic is we're going to talk about the shadow. And first of all, I'm curious, like, how. How did you get here? What is your. What led you into the dark to the shadow, if you will?
Adam [00:02:01]:
Well, to be honest, since I was very, very young, I remember having very sort of dark, taboo fantasies where, you know, I was eroticizing, like, experiences. I was having, like, feelings that were happening, and I would. I would have these dark fantasies of being humiliated and even before I knew what sex was, you know, so I'd say, like, sort of erotic shadow play has always been with me since, you know, a very, very early age. And then more recently, I did some work with the Light Dark Institute where, you know, they sort of, that's what they do. They do erotic shadow play. They're. They're using Eros to bring to light the shadowy parts of ourselves. So to bring them into consciousness, into love, into Eros, and, yeah, like, really revealing how big we are and empowering us around these parts of ourselves that typically we've been denying and imagining you shouldn't be there and repressing and trying to avoid.
Adam [00:03:15]:
So it's such a relief when we, like, when we allow these parts to be seen, to be played with, to enjoy the erotic juice that's in the shadow.
Deborah [00:03:27]:
Thank you. And so, I mean, I have a really good idea of what you mean when you talk about shadow, but I'm going to just invite you to be more specific. And what do you mean by the shadow?
Adam [00:03:42]:
Yeah, so shadows, really, any part of us that that's been denied has been repressed, has been shamed. So it's kind of like, you know, when we take on our personality and the, like, the sort of socially acceptable, the one that we show up as or want to be seen as, it's like it creates a shadow. So everything that doesn't fit that. That self image that we're projecting is, like, driven off into the shadow. So. And although we've made these choices, like, oh, I'm going to project that one and not be that, not to be the stuff that's in the shadow. Often we've totally forgotten and totally disconnected from the shadow aspects of ourselves. So, like, we no longer have access to them.
Adam [00:04:31]:
We imagine they're only out there. They're not part of us. You know? So it's. It's really, you know, we're actually unconscious there. We actually don't know, like, these parts of ourselves. And often these parts are, like, trying to get their needs met and trying to, like, you know, they're. They're, you know, trying to, like, do, you know, assert themselves. But we're unconscious, and we just have, like, all these sort of COVID stories for them.
Adam [00:05:00]:
It's like, no, no, that's not happening. No, it's. It's something else, you know? So we just have these explanations for what we're doing and why we're doing it. But deeper down, there's things at play that we're actually not conscious of, typically.
Deborah [00:05:18]:
Can you give an example of one of these parts that might be in the background and what we might be projecting instead?
Adam [00:05:29]:
So, like, so, I mean, a typical one, right, is anger. A lot of people repress anger. And it's like, no, no, I'm not angry. No, it's like, you know, so then, you know, but, like, that anger is actually often, you know, a very healthy sign that, like, oh, we're. A boundary's being crossed or we need to say something or we need to speak up or take action to assert ourselves, but because we've repressed the anger, and we're like, no, no, I'm not. I'm spiritual. I'm never angry. You know, like, we.
Adam [00:06:04]:
So we'll project, like, no, no, I'm harmless and nice. You know, I'm not angry. And then, but the desire, like, that anger energy is going to come out sideways. So we might be passive aggressive. We might be like, oh, I'm. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm late, you know, or, oh, I totally forgot that I was going to do that for you, you know. Oh, you know, but it's like.
Adam [00:06:28]:
But actually, we're like, yeah, like, so.
Deborah [00:06:32]:
Somebody might have said that, you know, they might have said yes to something, to showing up on time or doing something for you, and they didn't really. There's a part of them that didn't actually want to say yes. So instead of being direct, this sneaky little part comes out and, oh, look, they're late, or, oh, look, they forgot about it. So. And is that. So that's kind of the shadow at play.
Adam [00:06:59]:
Exactly. That's the shadow, like, influencing the behavior. But we have a completely different explanation that we're giving, and we're often not aware of the anger. Right. So we've, you know, when it's deep shadow, we're not even aware that we're angry. We're just like, no, I just. I just am late. You know, it's just like, no, all these things happened and they took priority, and, you know, we're not aware of the fact that actually, we didn't want to say yes.
Adam [00:07:24]:
We have some story that comes in. Well, of course I should say yes to this because a good person would say yes, and I'm a good person, so therefore I say yes. But actually, the energy is like, no, don't want to do this. And we're angry because we sold ourselves out.
Deborah [00:07:41]:
Oh. So the anger is not necessarily at the other person, but it's actually kind of with ourselves.
Adam [00:07:53]:
Yeah. I mean, it's. What is the anger directed towards? I mean, the anger is like, come. It's like, it could often be resentment. Right. Like, so we. It's like, is it. We might direct the other person, but really we're.
Adam [00:08:06]:
I mean, if we've said yes, like, it's. The anger is really to, like, to liberate us from the story. That's the shame story that has a say. You can't say no. You're not allowed to have boundaries. You're supposed to say yes when the person asks you this because you're a good person and you say yes when somebody asks you for something reasonable that you can give them.
Deborah [00:08:28]:
So I'm curious if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit, like, you know, how this work has. How it's transformed you or how it's transformed people that you've worked with.
Adam [00:08:42]:
Yeah, it's. So this work can be so quick and powerful in terms of, like, the liberation that it. That it enables. So there are for example, with anger. This is one of my early experiences was I was really angry at someone, and. And I was trying to process the anger. And I'd always had this, like, oh, it's so hard for me to, like, feel anger. And I like, am I done with it yet? You know, I'd like punch pillows or whatever, you know? Like.
Adam [00:09:18]:
And it's like, can I process his anger? It needs to be expressed. I know, but, like, is it done yet? Why am I still angry? And the person I was working with suggested, why don't you, like, allow it to be erotic? Like, to, like, you let yourself, like, sort of entertain, like, a revenge fantasy or something that's, like, sexual. And I was like, oh, that's really hot. And then I imagine, like, punishing this person in a sexual way. And it was like. It was like, oh, so delicious, you know? And it was. And it was like, suddenly, oh, wow. This anger energy is like.
Adam [00:09:54]:
It's like power. It's like good energy. It feels good. You know, it totally switched it from, like, this is something that you're not supposed to feel. You're just supposed to get rid of or process something to, like, no, this is actually life energy. This is my power. This is, like, this is good erotic energy. And once I had that experience, it was like, that was no longer afraid of my anger.
Adam [00:10:20]:
I was actually welcoming of my anger. And interestingly, other people's anger was much more interesting to me, enlivening to me. Whereas before, it was always like, oh, God, how do we settle them down? Like, can you get over that? You know? And, like. But now it's like, oh, interesting anger. Mmm. Yeah, it's like, it's really. Yeah, such a. Such can be such a quick switch when we.
Adam [00:10:46]:
When we see, like, the erotic nature of these parts of ourselves, these energies.
Deborah [00:10:51]:
And when you use the term erotic nature or eros, what. What are you meaning by that?
Adam [00:11:01]:
Yeah, so eros, I would say, is like. It's sort of like sexual energy, or. But even that can be a little too specific. Eros is like. It's like life energy is erotic. So all the things we feel, like have an erotic energy, like an erotic component to them. There's part of us that enjoys feeling because it's feeling. And we often don't notice this because we're uncomfortable with feelings, or we have shame that comes in and always scared of our feelings.
Adam [00:11:36]:
So. So often, like, our experience of the feelings is like, we're not enjoying the feeling. We're actually, like, scared of it or ashamed of it or uncomfortable with it. But when we give ourselves permission to enjoy the feelings and to really allow ourselves to feel them, it's like there's actually pleasure in it. Like, there's. And it can be quite sexual pleasure. It can certainly, like, be expressed erotically, be expressed sexually. But even if it's not, it's like there's still an enjoyment that we're feeling just because we're allowing ourselves to feel life energy, to feel erotic energy moving through our bodies.
Deborah [00:12:15]:
Beautiful. I love that. Yeah. In Tantra, when we talk about, like, you know, the arrows, it's, you know, creative energy talking about, you know, because it's the same energy that creates life or, you know, projects or whatever. And it is that very alive. You know, it is that energy that gives us the feeling of aliveness, that gives us the excitement that goes with it. So I'm curious, like, I mean, I.
Adam [00:12:44]:
Think also, if we look at it, like, the opposite way, if we say, like, just be good, you know, just be a good, quiet, equanimous person, you know, like, so you. So it's like you sort of, oh, I've got to, like, stop myself from feeling like I'm not allowed to feel, like, how that feels. Like. Like, there's so much. The enjoyment of life energy is, like, not allowed. You know, when we. When we put ourselves in a, like, no, these feelings are not allowed to be here. There's something bad with them, you know? So, like, we constrict our life energy, you know, like, there's tension held in the body that's like, oh, I mustn't feel these things.
Adam [00:13:20]:
You know, it's, like, totally different from, like, that open. Like, wow. Yeah. I can feel all the different energies and feelings are available for them. I can be sensitive. I can cry. I could shout. I can jump around.
Adam [00:13:31]:
I could. I can just feel all these different things moving through my body.
Deborah [00:13:36]:
And why do you think that it is such a taboo to look at or explore these energies and these feelings and experiences?
Adam [00:13:52]:
Yeah, I think it happens very early on that we get messages from our parents, our caregivers that energy is not welcome. When you show up that way, bad things are going to happen to you. So we very quickly learn, oh, I get love if I show up this way, I get other kinds of feedback that I don't like if I show up the other way. So we start to make these parts of ourselves wrong. We deny they exist. We hide them. We shut them down. We constrict ourselves to not feel them, to not express and that just becomes, you know, that those processes become solidified and, like, patterned.
Adam [00:14:36]:
So we have just patterns of, like, yeah, I never express this feeling. I'm never allowed, you know, boys don't cry. So, like, I'm never going to, like, show upset or I'm never, I'm never going to, like to cry. I'm not going to allow tears. I'm going to hide it all.
Deborah [00:14:54]:
So it's like, you know, hearing you say that, it's like, oh, okay, so when, for instance, with boys, boys don't cry. It's like crying is vulnerability. It's softness. And so instead of showing that, you know, the acceptable emotion for boys and for men is anger. And then when, you know, I know this happens with my clients quite a bit, is it's like they see that anger not well expressed, can be damaging and dangerous, and they shut that piece down. So now they can't be vulnerable and they can't be angry. And it's really a constricting place to be.
Adam [00:15:36]:
Yeah. And we just become more and more shut down. Yeah, it's like that, like, the energy's not allowed to move through the body. We just sort of live in the mind and, like, we're sort of confused because we're not. We don't have access to the information in the body, so we're just, like, trying to figure everything out with the mind and. Yeah, and, like, we're not really able to live. There's like, this distance from our experience because it's like, because we know that our experience is not the way it's supposed to be. That's bad.
Adam [00:16:00]:
There's something wrong with us because we have these feelings that are not allowed, that shouldn't be here, you know, and that's all shame story, that's all false. You know, all our feelings are. All our feelings deserve to be felt, deserve to be seen, deserve to be loved and embraced.
Deborah [00:16:18]:
And so when someone starts to kind of notice, like, oh, I've been putting this in the background, and they start to think about, like, well, I want to do something different. Like, what are some of the safe works? I don't want to say acceptable because acceptable is not always, you know, fully expressed, but, like, what are. What are some of the ways that people actually, I'm going to make it personal. What are some of the ways that you have come to terms with your anger and those parts that you were leaving in the shadow?
Adam [00:17:01]:
Yeah. So, I mean, part of it, right. Is, you know, having, like, acceptance for ourselves and, like, really loving ourselves there, like, not making ourselves wrong. So, like, often there's like, we have stories about these parts of like, what these feelings mean about us. So, like, deconstructing those. Like, seeing that's all bullshit. Like you're a human being. You get to feel things, you know? But then also like, really? Yeah, like giving.
Adam [00:17:30]:
Giving permission for these feelings to be expressed in ways that. To be felt and to be expressed in ways that are playful or fun or erotic. Which is one of my favorite ways to express them, you know, so. So personally, you know, like what? One of the things I love to do with partners is to like, to allow those energies to come into erotic play with them. So, like giving to. Giving expression to different energies. And yes, it's tremendously hot because it's like. Cause the intensity of the feeling, the juice in the feeling is then it's turn on is arousal makes sex very, very juicy.
Adam [00:18:27]:
When you give permission to really feel the things that are there, especially the things that are, like, taboo, you know, the things that have been shut down and repressed and shouldn't be there, you know, it's like hard in itself. Just like to see those feelings and feel them, express them.
Deborah [00:18:49]:
I know one of the components of shadow work, one of the classics is archetypal work. You know, young and Freud and, you know, all the old guys. But that, I think that's a really powerful way to think about some of it. Can you talk a little bit about archetypal about some of the archetypes?
Adam [00:19:14]:
Yeah, I tend to be a little more organic with that because there are archetypes, shadow archetypes and so on. But the other thing. But the thing is all these are made up, right? Ultimately, there's all kinds of different flavors and shades of things inside of us. It's really like getting to know ourselves. And I encourage people to, like, sort of name, like to name the parts of themselves if they want to, you know? But like. But it's not to. Not to constrict our sense of ourselves to any particular, like, sort of vocabulary of archetypes. It always feels constricting to me.
Adam [00:19:59]:
I mean, it's like. It's like, what's. What's actually here? Like, what's actually true for you? And, you know, this. There's. I mean, my sense is more like. It's a bit more like sort of like the tantric God and goddess. You know, it's like. But they're not as, like the archetypal God or goddess, but like, it's like, yes, you're the God that like, has access to all the possibilities within us.
Adam [00:20:25]:
Like, it's like infinite possibilities within us. So. And, you know, one of the ways we can see that, right, is through empathy. Like, can you. Can you feel this? Like, so if somebody is able to give expression to some aspect of themselves that you're not able to or have a lot of access to, it's like, opening to them can often be a way to, like, oh, oh, yeah, I know that part of me. It's like. And then you can bring that one forward.
Deborah [00:20:57]:
Can you say a little bit more about what you mean by that?
Adam [00:21:02]:
Like, the way that people can sort of model for us, like, different expressions. So maybe I'm really disempowered. I don't have access to my power. And then I see somebody who's modeling access to power. It's like, oh, like, can I find, like, what that is inside myself? Oh, right, yeah. Oh, I can feel what it would be like to have that kind of power. Oh, yeah. Like, and then, of course, you do have that power, right? Like, yeah, that's something you have access to.
Deborah [00:21:34]:
So kind of like, seeing it in someone else is like, oh, if it's possible over there, it might be possible over here.
Adam [00:21:40]:
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, it reveals the possibility. So there's no limit to what's inside of us, you know, like, it's like we're really vast.
Deborah [00:21:52]:
And how. So how does the shadow work link to some of your past? Your past works?
Adam [00:22:03]:
Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, there's different sort of layers to the work. So, yeah, what do I want to say here? So, I guess one way to conceive of it is, like, it's an aspect of erotic embodiment. Again, it's really hard to embody eros if we're shutting down all the life energy in the shadow. So giving permission, and often the sexuality itself has been shamed so much that it's a shadow place. Like. Like the one that wants to have sex, that likes sex, is like. Is already sort of driven underground and denied. It's like, no, no, no.
Deborah [00:22:49]:
You know, like, especially in many, many spiritual communities, that kind of sexual energy is. Is, you know, that that's not the way to. That's not the way to create connection to spirit. And so, you know, there's. And I I know that that's a place where you've spent a lot of time and done a lot of work, is in meditation and spiritual communities. And so I'm delighted that you've come to the dark side, but I'm just kind of wondering if you can make a little bit of a bridge from the work that you have been doing. And, like, how is it evolving? What? You know, because clearly, you're very passionate about this work right now.
Adam [00:23:37]:
Okay, so let's. Let's start.
Deborah [00:23:39]:
I say it looks really good on you.
Adam [00:23:43]:
Thank you. So, you know, my work is sort of based in non duality, so. And as I. As I started sharing non duality, you know, it became very apparent as well that, like, this needs to go all the way through the body. You know, the whole system, you know, is, like. Is being invited into this. This space of freedom. And shadow play is, like, a way to allow that integration, to allow the full embodiment and the freedom that non duality points to really have the range of experience available to us so we don't have to imagine ourselves as the small identity and continue to play those patterns and deny all the rest.
Adam [00:24:35]:
We can actually have access to all the full range of experience and expression. And then when we know all these parts of ourselves, we're at a point of such empowerment and choice. So we know all the different parts of us that are here, and we choose to come from the place that's most true for us, most alive for us. Um, yeah, there's tremendous freedom there, like a realized, sort of embodied freedom.
Deborah [00:25:09]:
So, um, I just want to step back for a second, because I want to make sure that our listeners, can you explain what non duality is?
Adam [00:25:20]:
So, in a nutshell, in 30, I'll have a go.
Deborah [00:25:25]:
I mean, a lifetime practice.
Adam [00:25:27]:
Yeah. Non duality is, uh, the simple point of a non duality is like that. Everything is made up. So the ways that we classify this or that with ways we divide up and explain reality are fabricated. They're made up. So what is this? Before we give it a name, before we decide there's a self and another and divide the world in all the categories we've got in the language. What is this? And before that. So that's what we call non duality.
Adam [00:26:05]:
So it's the non thing that allows for all the things to be created out of it.
Deborah [00:26:15]:
Awesome.
Adam [00:26:16]:
And includes all the things. Includes all the things. So some people call it nothing. It could be the nothing, the open space. But it's also. It's not denying, like, everything that is.
Deborah [00:26:32]:
So it's accepting what is and not necessarily creating the. This is good. This is bad. This is yes, this is no, this is me. This is you. But actually being with what is without actually making a lot of judgments about it, would that be accurate.
Adam [00:26:56]:
It's kind of, yeah, it's sort of like seeing that that's like the ultimate truth in a way. So the truth, before we start creating ideas and beliefs and systems of practice and so on, like, there's a starting point where like, it's just openness. It's just like, yeah, what is this? Yeah, and it's like, who the hell knows, right? And then we make up, we project meaning onto it and we say, oh, I'm this kind of person. You're that kind of person. Let's have fun. You know, and all the ideologies and beliefs and cosmologies and so on are all made up. They're fabrications from this sort of essential non duality, which doesn't mean they're bad. It doesn't mean we shouldn't do that.
Adam [00:27:46]:
It can be very useful, enlightening, helpful, all the good things. But it's not the ultimate truth. Because anytime we say what the ultimate truth is, we've always created a shadow. If we say it's this, well, what about that? We've divided reality into like, oh, this is the truth. It's like, well, what about the shadow? What about the other? So, yeah, oh, go ahead. Yeah. So it's a way of relating to language and thoughts and beliefs and ideas and so on. It's very free, so we don't have to be.
Adam [00:28:26]:
It's not like we're seeking, like, what's the ultimate truth? What's the ultimate purpose? What does God want? It's like any answer we give to those questions is always limited. Like, the real truth is always beyond anything we say. It's always beyond anything we could say.
Deborah [00:28:47]:
And so then I'm curious then, how does this new evolution, I guess, build on what you've been doing in the past or shift what you've been doing in the past? Or. Yeah, catch me up.
Adam [00:29:12]:
So when we show up as a particular, when we show up in a particular way, it's like we're also able to acknowledge, like, wow. Yeah. And there's all kinds of other possibilities here, right? So it's like, so we're not pretending like we're small and we have to do this because this is the kind of person I am. We're actually, like, aware of all the possibilities that live within us as like, yeah, I'm choosing to show up in this way. I'm choosing to play this way. So it's really like realizing how free we are, how big we are, how powerful we are. So again, like these sort of aspects of divinity. And we get to choose to play in this particular way.
Adam [00:30:05]:
We get to show up in this particular way, expressed in this particular way.
Deborah [00:30:11]:
And so I'm kind of curious. I know part of our conversation you're bringing this new work into the world, and I'm curious, what is it looking like? How can people tap into this work that you're. That you're not creating but expanding into?
Adam [00:30:33]:
Yeah. Yeah. So I've been doing some of this in. In the retreats I've already been offering before, but I'm actually now offering, like, specific retreats that are devoted to erotic shadow play. I'm calling them playing in the dark or making love with our shadows. They have different names, but. So there's going to be retreat in Berkeley in August, a retreat in October in Kentucky, the start of October, and then the end of October, we're going to do one in Bulgaria. So these are.
Adam [00:31:06]:
These are like deep dives where we're going to spend two or three days together and really go into erotic shadow play. So really exploring the shadow aspects of ourselves, giving them permission, bringing them into play, into connection.
Deborah [00:31:21]:
And is there going to be, like, maybe some sort of self evaluation to look at? Like, what part of the shadow? Or. Or is that even just too well spelled out? Like, I'm super curious.
Adam [00:31:37]:
It's really interesting. Like, once we start turning towards shadow aspects of ourselves, it's really. It's a very dynamic process. So often, like, you'll start with a particular shadow that you want to look at, and then immediately other shadowy parts come through. So it's really like giving permission for the process to unfold, and it can happen so quickly. Like I say, I was working with another client where there was something around selfishness. It's like, okay, let's have the selfish one come play. And it's like.
Adam [00:32:18]:
And then giving permission for that, it's like all kinds of stuff gets discovered in that, and it's like. And the enjoyment, the pleasure of finally giving permission to a part that's always been made wrong, always been ashamed of that we've always been uncomfortable with. To give it expression and to actually see the gift that it's offering is that, oh, my God, I'm expressing my desire. I get to have desires and they get to be expressed. It's like to actually viscerally feel the energetic shift in our bodies is so powerful, so liberating. It's like, oh, this is good. This is good. This thing that I locked away, it's so good.
Deborah [00:32:59]:
And who would you say that? Who would you say is. Would benefit from this?
Adam [00:33:07]:
I mean, I could say everybody.
Deborah [00:33:11]:
Of course everybody could. Totally. But there is.
Adam [00:33:16]:
Yeah, I would say that this work is fairly advanced work, so people who have some familiarity with consciousness work. It wouldn't be like your first sort of step into personal growth or something. Certainly for the group work anyway, I would say that that's true and probably also for people who are somewhat comfortable with, you know, sharing erotic energy in a group setting. So if you're sort of, like, if you've never shared an erotic energy outside of the bedroom, that, you know, these retreats might be a stretch for you, you know, again, I mean, if you're comfortable with it, if you feel like you're available for that. Yeah, no problem. Yeah. Yeah, I guess that's what I'll say for that. Yeah.
Deborah [00:34:09]:
Okay, cool. And then, I mean, I'm just thinking that, like, when I hear you talk about this work and especially around things like anger or, you know, I'm imagining that this work is actually really good for people who've done a lot of work and then feel like they've hit, you know, I've done all this work, but I still don't have what I want, or I've done all this work, and I keep running into the same thing over and over again. And, you know, how is that possible?
Adam [00:34:41]:
Yeah, because a lot of us have done similar kinds of, like, light work, you know, like, where it's, you know, like, loving and accepting the parts of ourselves. And that certainly gets us, you know, this really powerful, important work. So I don't want to make that work wrong at all. That's. That's awesome. But this, like, gives an. It's like, it is a different modality, and it's really. It fits nicely with that modality, but it really does make something else possible.
Adam [00:35:12]:
Like, when you're really connecting it to the movement of life energy, the erotic energy in the body, which is, when you think about it, it's such an obvious way. In Eros is like, pleasure in the body. To connect with that is such a great way to reclaim these parts of ourselves that have shame around them, that have been made wrong, that we are often scared of. It's like to. Like to feel the erotic quality. It's like, oh, yeah, this feels good. This is sexy. This is alive to let ourselves feel.
Adam [00:35:49]:
That is such a great access point. And it really shifts things energetically. And we can feel very quickly. You can feel that shift from, like, I'm trying to accept this. Oh, like, why is this here, you know, like, what? How am I going to heal this to, like, oh, this feels good. Oh, like, I like this. I want to play with this. I want to know this one.
Adam [00:36:12]:
I mean, it's such a quick switch when that energetic shift goes from pushing away, getting over, getting over it as fast as we can to, like, welcoming it and saying, like, oh, you're really just feeling the visceral goodness of the alive energy.
Deborah [00:36:29]:
I love hearing that. I know in my own work, one of the things that I run into, and this is much like, what you're talking about is people living pretty much from the waist up. And so it's like, there's a little bit around, you know, there's a little bit around power, there's a little bit around, but not much. And it's all pretty much, you know, I'm going to be in the heart or I'm going to be in the head. And especially in the parts of the world that I'm in, Silicon Valley, I have a lot of clients that are up in their head and they're doing a lot of mental gymnastics to, as you said, be the good person or, you know, be the productive, you know, being the productive person or the provider. What. Whatever template they're trying to. To fit themselves into, whatever little box they're trying to fit themselves into.
Deborah [00:37:27]:
And then once, you know, once they're allowed to or encouraged to or maybe pushed into, depending on what day it is, lower their attention down into the power center and the anger, the creativity and the sexuality and know, into, like, really grounding into that first chakra to that. Like, I'm here and I'm allowed to be here, and there's no mistake that I'm here and really, like, finding that root, you know, sounds very similar to the work that you're. That you're describing.
Adam [00:38:10]:
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's really like, yeah, like, coming into connection with the erotic energy, with the sexual center, like, and all the juice of life is available there. And if we shut that down, it's like you say we're living for the waste up, and it's like, it's just like, the energetic system is, like, it's, like, so contorted and constrictive, but, like, once that opens up, it's like, it's a totally different energetic system. I mean, it's like we can feel, like, the inspiration, the juice, the aliveness moving through us. We're allowed to enjoy it.
Deborah [00:38:51]:
Absolutely. What would you say is something that people get wrong about this work, about shadow work.
Adam [00:39:03]:
I think one of the things I notice comes up. People object to it as, like, well, if you give permission to these bad parts, then they'll just run amok. They'll act out in terrible ways and do terrible things. And what I've noticed is, like, exactly the reverse is true. Like, the more conscious we become of these parts of ourselves. Like, if I know the murderer, the violator, the violent destroyer, you know, if I know these parts of myself, like, I can feel them. It's like I'm conscious of them. It's like then I'm, like, totally at choice around them.
Adam [00:39:45]:
But what happens typically is we deny all these. No, that's. Other people have that. I don't have any of this. And then if that starts to surface, we're like, oh, my God, am I that one? Oh, my God, I thought I was this. But no, I might be that one. And there's this identification that can move back and forth between the part that we were supposed to be and the shadowy part that we know we're not supposed to be. And actually, that's a much more dangerous situation.
Adam [00:40:16]:
And often the shadowy part, we're only going to allow the shadowy part to be expressed if we go unconscious. So, like, anger, for example, Will. Often people will only allow anger to be expressed when they totally lose control. They just can't stop it anymore. And they just go, this is crazy. Run amok. And they're like, oh, God, what did I do? I've got to shut that down even more. But actually, if you give permission for the anger and you develop a happy relationship with the anger, a loving relationship, a vital relationship with the anger, erotic relationship with it, then you can express it.
Adam [00:40:53]:
You know exactly what you're doing. You're totally there with the anger. And you're like, yeah, I need to say this. You're able to actually really own these energies and to be consciously present in their expression. And I think that's the thing. You can be really conscious with these places, and then they don't have to just show up unconsciously, like when we lose control and can't stop it anymore. And now all this energy is like running amok.
Deborah [00:41:21]:
Well, and I think that's where someone like you comes in, is it's like you are creating a space that is safe for that person to explore the anger and to do it in a way that, you know, they may not know how to let the pressure valve off. And so. And so it's very helpful, I think, to do this with people.
Adam [00:41:46]:
Yeah.
Deborah [00:41:47]:
And even more so, you know, my own experience in working with people and this kind of energy is having it witnessed. Having it witnessed and approved of and loved and given a job, you know, because all of these parts of ourselves, as you said this earlier, it's like all of these parts were developed in a strategy to either keep us safe or to keep us. To keep us safe. You know, whether it is, this is the way that I need to be to fit into the world. This is the way that I need to be. To fit, to be loved. This is the way I need to be taken care of. And as you said earlier, these parts of ourselves are created at a very young age.
Deborah [00:42:38]:
And so when we can, as adults in a safe container, go back and look and maybe even feel and have some approval for that, because oftentimes, those that were around us at those tender times, they weren't anywhere. They weren't anymore, uh, integrated, and, you know, then than we were at that time.
Adam [00:43:05]:
Right. Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's like our shadows is a reflection of our caregiver shadows. Very often it's like the stuff that they couldn't hold is like the stuff that we had to bury and, like. And, yeah, I love what you're saying about that. And, like, that being met with. Being witnessed, being met with love and also with desire. I mean, this is the thing with erotic shadow play is like, you actually get to experience, like, oh, you like this energy, you know, because it's like, when it's being expressed erotically, it's like, it's hot, you know, like, people can enjoy the play there.
Adam [00:43:38]:
Yeah, it's like, I remember I had a couple I was working with, and there was. The woman had the. They were talking about opening up the relationship, and the woman in the relationship was very upset about, like, having shut her sexuality down for her partner. And now he was wanting to open it up. And so after we sort of did the loving and the holding of the different pieces there, it was like the anger that she felt so much shame around, feeling angry about that, you know, if I was you, I would tell your partner a revenge fantasy. And she was like, oh. And she said, like, yes, I'm very. With a very rich man, and you're waiting for me.
Adam [00:44:28]:
And he was like, oh, my God, that's so hot. So she got to express this part of herself, but she had all this discomfort around and shame around, and she got to express it in an erotic way. And her partner loved her just like, oh, my God, that's so hot. That's so powerful.
Deborah [00:44:50]:
So did they go on to open up the relationship or did they play with each other for a while in that energy?
Adam [00:44:56]:
I mean, they definitely played with themselves with that energy. And we were on retreat, actually, at the time. And her, I mean, it opened everything for her. I mean, she was so free, like I'd never seen her before. I mean, it was amazing. She gave us, there was so much permission that was now allowed for, like, the parts of herself that have been tightly held and weren't allowed, were now given permission and seen as beautiful and desirable and good. It was just like such a. Yeah.
Adam [00:45:33]:
Total shift in the energy from just that simple, that simple act of giving permission there and like, and being met by her partner. Like, that was like, so powerful.
Deborah [00:45:45]:
I love that. So we are getting to the end of our time together. And so in a moment, I am going to to ask you if there is one thing that you wanted to make sure that is highlighted that people get from our conversation, what might that be? But I'm going to take a quick moment and just let people know how they can support the better sex podcast. Because sex is a complex subject. It can make or break a relationship. And unfortunately, most of us don't grow up in environments where we can talk about sex. And that's why I'm offering the sexual mastery breakthrough session. It's a personalized, one on one experience so that you can have more fulfilling sex life.
Deborah [00:46:35]:
Let's face it, a podcast, even as good as this one, is just not enough. You need to have techniques you need to practice. And so if you're ready for tools and techniques, please check out the show notes and click on the sexual mastery breakthrough session. And let's talk. Cause let's face it, life is too short for bad sex. So I'm curious what you came up with. What is it that you want people to walk away from this conversation with?
Adam [00:47:06]:
You know, I'm really taken with just the way you were offering that support to people as well. I think that's one thing I really like to emphasize is that, like, being seen, being connected, like with your shadow parts in your shadow parts, is so healing. It's not the kind of thing you can really do very easily by yourself. You can do bits of it by yourself, but it's like, it's so powerful to do it either in a coaching session or to do it in a retreat setting where you're with people. It's like, it's such, so powerful. I think often we have this like, you know, this sort of, we've got to do it all by ourselves. But it's like, it's so. It's this.
Adam [00:47:53]:
The technology of, like, doing it with someone else is just so much more powerful. Powerful.
Deborah [00:48:01]:
I love that.
Adam [00:48:02]:
All the shadow parts, they're all good. They're all good. They're all sexy, like. And, you know, you've been taught a bunch of lies about that. I mean, all the shame stories are lies. They're all false, right?
Deborah [00:48:15]:
Absolutely. Shame is. It's a way that we control each other. Shame is the most powerful, controlling tool that we have. And so when we start to unpeel it, it can be really scary. And I love what you were saying about having the support, having the reflection, and really having somebody just shine that approval at that part of ourselves that we've never thought of as good, as powerful, as needed, as wanted. And it's just such an incredible experience when we're willing to reveal that part of ourself that is so scary and so, like, ugh, I can't possibly let anybody see this part of me. And then when you do it and people are like, oh, my God, that is so hot.
Deborah [00:49:16]:
That is so. You know, because what the thing about it is, and maybe you can tell me what you think about this, is it's like that version of whatever the emotion is, it's still going to be held with the whole and the totality of who we are. So, you know, yes, there is going to be a different flavor, but it's not going to be, you know, such a foreign version of ourselves.
Adam [00:49:51]:
Yeah. And it's like, because of the shame, we're scared of, like, how big we are. You know, we're scared to acknowledge, like, all the possibilities that live within us. And, like. And I want to say that we don't have to be scared of that. We really don't have to be scared of that. The more we become conscious of ourselves, the more choiceful, the more empowered we are, the more flexible we're actually able to respond to whatever the situations are requiring of us.
Deborah [00:50:22]:
Right. And it shifts from shutting down to calibration. Or at least this has been my experience. Right. Like, we learn how to calibrate not because we want to do anything different, but because we want to connect with a person. And, you know, when we are able to calibrate, when we're able to actually feel each other and we can't feel each other if we're busy hiding.
Adam [00:50:51]:
Yeah.
Deborah [00:50:52]:
You know, so I think that's yet another good reason to go there, is it's like, you know, the more that we can actually allow these parts, the more we can be felt. Not only are we feeling ourselves, but we're feeling each other. And, you know, it's. I know as somebody who spent a lot of time putting my attention on how to feel other people, it's like we can feel when all that stuff is sneaking out the sides.
Adam [00:51:21]:
Totally, totally. Yeah.
Deborah [00:51:24]:
And. And it allows for more connections, so. Oh, my God, this is such a great conversation. I feel like we could definitely go on, but I do want to give you the last word. And so is there anything more that you want to say and let people know where they can find you?
Adam [00:51:46]:
Yeah, my website is adamchacksfield.com, so it's just my name. And then calm the end. And yeah, I'm available to meet with you one on one. And like I said, I have these retreats happening in California and Kentucky and Bulgaria and, yeah, really love to support anyone who's interested in exploring this.
Deborah [00:52:10]:
Beautiful. So thank you so incredibly much for coming, for sharing this. And it's a delight to, you know, to feel into your presence and get to see your joy, feel your aliveness. Yeah. And the more alive we are, the more aliveness we give others permission to be. And so I think that's a really important thing that I just want to.
Adam [00:52:44]:
It's such a gift. It's such a gift to people. Yeah. Like, to be able to, like, to show up in our authenticity, in our aliveness, to be able to bring forth the. The parts of ourselves. It's like, it's such a gift. So it's so beautiful. Yeah.
Adam [00:52:58]:
I mean, that's what we want, right. We want to be in connection with people who are alive and vital, and we want to be able to show up ourselves as alive and vital and. Yeah. To be able to be able to. Yeah. To be able to meet there. So it's. Yeah.
Adam [00:53:13]:
Thank you for having me on here, Deborah. It's lovely connecting with you.
Deborah [00:53:17]:
Thank you so much. And on that note, if you. If you know anybody who you want to inspire aliveness in, please share this episode with them. And, you know, again, do your part in being. In creating that safe and sexy world. Like comment, subscribe, and on that note, have a wonderful rest of your day or evening, wherever you're listening.